As a Republican do you feel the Christian Right has side-tracked the party? (Reagan, Democrats)

[GloryB]

The evangelical vote is BIG. Any party who doesn't go after it is crazy. The only way to get it is to make some moral and social adjustments in the platform. Historically, the Republicans have been known to factor it in better than the Democrats. This could change at any time. It isn't any different than any other special interest group with a big caucus.

[goldengrain]

I too, was a Republican, but it was mostly for fiscally conservative measures, not social issues.

It's hard to know how to express this, but years back, when we were after Communists at home, I believed there were probably subversive groups being sponsored by one Communist source, but I also suspected this of the radical right, that there was probably sponsorship by one source.

So, in nearly present time, when seemingly all at once we heard nothing in the news of the KKK and Aryan Nation, etc, and just around that time David Dukes(Duke?) and George Wallace started running for office. When those election attempts failed, I considered that the 'sourcing' for the KKK and the like might have felt that there was no way that they could cause enough of a groundswell of public opinion to vote for a racist.
Racism was not an ingrained American tradition for most of us.

So they took something that was American, religion, and started sponsoring phony clergy - religious leaders who would get involved politically and use religion to gather an even bigger following. They became politically active and had their 'true believers' infiltrate the Republican Party and made sure they all voted in primaries. Around this time George Bush had his conversion and stopped drinking.

One of W's teachers was interviewed. There was some question in the class on how to tackle poverty in America. George said it was none of our business. They brought it on themselves. The professor said this was his attitude all during class.

I think the Republican Party neocons are not really being motivated by truly American ideals. I think their followers are being manipulated, as are some of those church goers who support this neocon agenda.

Musselini defined fascism as corporatism (government of and by corporations). He should know.

I think this is what the US government is ultimately working toward.

I think people have dropped out of the party because they smell a rat.
The drop outs are the thinkers and there are just some of these neocon prinicples that go against the grain, are unAmerican and we'll be damned if we will march in lockstep to someone else's tune.

I am almost thinking that the push for illegals in the country was a part of their divide and conquer strategy, to get more independents into their neocon camp. Gee, that sort of thing really worked in the faterland!

I may be talking out of my hat, but the entire thing forms a picture to me that is not nice. I have seen little that convinces me otherwise.

I hope things do not get any worse and the people who are blindly following these creeps do not wake up one day when it's too late and
realize what a mistake they made.

I even think Democrats take too much corporate money, but I don't think Obama is playing 'their' game. I wonder if the Kennedy brothers started chipping away at their plans which caused their early demise. I hope that does not happen to Barack.

When Ike warned of the military industrial complex, I think he knew how nasty these guys are. He waited 'till the very last day of his presidency. He may have been fearful of saying it earlier.

So, no, I used to be Republican, but no more. I am glad that we now have a candidate who is not a part of the club who actually has a good chance of winning.

To me, this will be just a hitch in their plans. I think the goal is world control. With international business and labor bidding down their income in competition eventually people will start wanting some regulation of international corportations. That will lead to the dreaded one world government of sorts. There will probably be people positioned, maybe at the top of the UN or some other group.

Who knows???

Look at China, and the ruthlessness. We are becoming more like them each day, it seems. Is that what we want for our people?

This was posted elsewhere, but shocked me:

Bill Moyers Journal . Transcripts | PBS
About China -
"Last year, there was something of a revolt in several factories, after workers doing 50-hour shifts died of organ failures, the workers rose up and demanded some change. The government seemed, for a while, to be panicky, to be willing to give them some of their rights, even to let them have elected trade unions.
But American corporations, Microsoft, Nike, Ford, Dell, among others, working through the American Chamber of Commerce, threatened to take their business elsewhere if the Chinese government allowed these workers to organize."

Are we headed this way, too?
Should we bail out American auto makers, because they are asking for a taxpayer bailout again?
Does supporting huge corporations today end up stifling the competition and innovation of tomorrow?

So, I hope Obama gives us this small victory. It will be hard and painful to undo so much damage that Rathead and his administration has done.
Sometimes fate plays a hand and the best laid plans are turned around.

Again, I really hope that the way I am seeing all of this is just crazy. I would rather be nuts than to see this unfold. But it's how I see it today.

[ViewFromThePeak]

Originally Posted by GloryB

The evangelical vote is BIG. Any party who doesn't go after it is crazy. The only way to get it is to make some moral and social adjustments in the platform. Historically, the Republicans have been known to factor it in better than the Democrats. This could change at any time. It isn't any different than any other special interest group with a big caucus.

You risk alienating the other voting block that wants less government interference in people's personal lives. Barr may prove there exists a lethal dose of that block.

[S6Sputnik]

Originally Posted by burdell

As an independent I feel the Christian Right's influence on the party has deprived me of reasonable hope of there being a Republican I can vote for, at least on the national level.

X2 .. the Christian Rights hypocracy and ignorant ideology is absolutely the reason why I can not vote for McCain for a third time in my life.

[northbayeric]

My goodness, what a loaded poll question, eh? "Sidetracked by the *extreme* Christian right??? Do most of you believe the Republican Party was such a Grand Old Party before the advent of the "Christian Right?"

As I recall, the Republicans used to be hated and scorned because they were "the party of the rich," while the Democrats were the "party of the working class." Times have certainly changed. But it's patently clear that the Republicans can't do diddley to curry favor with their most implacable detractors. J.C. Watts? Michael Steele? Bah, nothing more than a couple of Uncle Toms! OK, so they want women in politics. The Republicans offer up Kay Bailey Hutchison, Marilyn Musgrave, Marsha Blackburn, Barbara Cubin, Sue Myrick, a number of others....and now Sarah Palin.....and MAN O MAN are the militant feminists P.O.'d!!

President George Washington wrote in his Farewell Address:

“Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, Religion and Morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and Citizens. The mere Politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity...And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.”

John Adams once said, "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

I would be very unhappy if the Republican Party were to turn its back on God and all of the blessings He has given our country since its inception. And I love Jesus very much, and thank him for all the wonderful things He has done for me. He certainly didn't and doesn't have to. I give all the credit to Jesus for me wanting to be a better person, a better husband, a better brother, a better friend, and a better employee at my job.

Why are so many people apparently frightened to the point of general panic at the thought of Jesus being more present in our lives, and in our public affairs? Thanks to Jesus, America has overcome slavery and either has overcome or is overcoming any one of a number of other social evils--as much as possible given our fallen nature. And ever since 9/11 especially, I think we would all do well to take 2 Chronicles 7:14 in the Bible to heart:

... if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

[mommabear2]

I'm a "quasi-Republican" (I will vote for either party depending on the circumstance) - more often than not, I vote RP. My affiliation with the RP has absolutely nothing to do with religion and everything to do with finances, capitalism, and economics. So my answer is no... the RP was not led astray by the Christian right. Oftentimes, it is business people like myself who have no religious affiliation that get p'ed off at the audacity of the Democratic party - sticking their grubby hands into our pockets because we're outnumbered, work hard, are financially savvy, and happen to have/earn more than the norm.

But it's not just about money. If it were just about money then I wouldn't be so offended that I have to pay more in relocation assistance to two sets of tenants (in order to sell one of my rental properties - a duplex) than most people make in an ENTIRE YEAR (btw, I'm upper middle class - and my tenants drive nicer vehicles than I do). It's the vulnerability that I can't stand - like I'm being robbed in a "nice" way. Any moment another Democrat is going to come into office and make my life harder to maintain than it already is (and I'm not crazy about that idea).

So I suppose people can say to themselves Republicans are just religious zealots or that we are a bunch of greedy money grubbing, rich, white people. But that's obviously not true. A lot of us just want to be left alone to provide for our families without being forced to provide for OTHER people's families through wealth distribution, higher taxes, etc., etc., etc. (yet, Democrats want me to do just that and like it). I'd rather be on the side of the Christian right - it doesn't look so "bad" from my angle.

[Vagabond]

Mommabear2 - I have absolute sympathy for your sentiment of wanting to just be left alone and to not have your money being misspent by the government. How ironic is to you that the supposedly "fiscally conservative" party has raped us of billions of dollars under the premise of playing war games in Iraq and that the couple trillion dollar surplus we had 8 years ago has been completely reversed to a couple trillion negative? In truth, both parties could stand a strong re-evaluation of their bloated wasteful economic policies. What angers me is when politicos tell out right lies to the public just to get re-elected - and we fall for it! The contemporary Republican party is anything but fiscally conservative except to the upper 1%-3% of the population that is wealthy.

northbayeric - the poll question is not loaded at all. It is only at the whim of "extremist" that we have to have issues like abortion rights and gay marriage shoved down our throats on a regular basis. Love Jesus all you want, there is no wrong in it, but every other citizen in America should not have to have your religious preferences and Christian doctrines shoved down our throats. In that regard we flirt with the possibility of becoming a religious fundamentalist government instead of a secular one, something I strongly doubt George Washington and crew had in mind for the future citizens of this country, inspite of Adam's quote. Didn't the pilgrims supposedly wander to this foreign land in search of religious freedom? Then how ironic is that one of this country's major political parties endorses the notion that there is only one correct way to worship God?

Goldenrain - good read, your post had some interesting perspectives in it that I actually would like to research. The theory of subversive groups purposely destroying the party is not beyond the pale and it wouldn't be a unique occurrence in US history. The quote about "Dubbya" and his view of the poor is neither shocking or disturbing, it's the perfect psychology for one who believes in and supports a fascist government. Corporations are the true government of this nation, but so many are in denial about that reality - maybe because it's too frightening a concept and in general we are too lazy to take it upon ourselves to demand change. Maybe some falsely believe that cracking down on the corporate oligarchy somehow will undermine the "spirit" of capitalism, others think we will drive more industry over-seas if we raise up against this insult. Fear has us whipped and strapped to our armchairs when we should be OUTRAGED at the way our country has been cooped by corporations and various special interest groups.

Humans are creatures of habit, and unfortunately that means we adapt easily to situations no matter how egregious they may be. I truly wish we as citizens would break the habit of just accepting whatever line of bull Washington happens to sell to us and take our civic responsibility seriously.

[ionlife]

Yes--

[tluv00]

Religion is faith based. Not everyone believes so not everyone should be living under a government that is pushing an agenda for or against religion. Once you have that it takes away the faith part. There are other countries in the world that allow religion to run the government. We are at war with one, and at odds with most of the others.

When politicians pander to a specific group it immediately throws the concept of country first out the window. If they don't already see it that way, then how are they supposed to preach it?

[High_Plains_Retired]

Originally Posted by TnHilltopper

I ask, what concerns and issues important to actual Christians in America have been thoroughly addressed in the past 7 years?

A better balance in the Supreme Court is enough but surely you're not suggesting that Christians vote as Democrats? This Christian left the Democratic Party forty years ago and today it's the same party as it was then although it has moved much further left and has no room for conservatives whether fiscal, social or both.

I also know that many of the supposed "conservative" posts which ravage Christians in these sorts of political online forums that are heavily weighted to liberalism are actually liberals wanting to drive a wedge between fiscal and social conservatives before an election. It's an old but worthy political ploy.