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What states do you people come from who dont think what he
is talking about is real ??
Im familier with all the major cities on the east coast and what
he says is spot on. The Blacks are ground zero of the class
divide being promoted by the Bu$h regime. Are you a white suburbanite
or are you black and live near / in Camden, NY, n. Philly or Baltimore, etc...??
Just curious.
I come from a 50% black town in South Carolina, and I live in a predominantly black neighborhood in downtown Wilmington, NC. I don't think what he is talking about is real. I think it is a political stunt. The black communities in my neck of the woods haven't changed much since Bush took office. I fail to see how he is the catalyst for this 'quiet riot', if it exists.
Quote:
Look at city schools and the funding they recieve....
Do you think if West Palm Beach in FL flooded like NOLA did,
they would have gotten the same treatment as NO'ers ??
I dont.
City schools are funded (depending on where you are) by the city, or by the state. Bush heads the federal government, which should stay as far away from education as possible, IMO. And as far as West Palm Beach flooding - why would it? They aren't a bunch of fools living below sea level. And if they were at extreme risk, like the people of New Orleans, I'd hope they would either (a). Secure their city from flooding years before the hurricane, or (b). Evacuate when the hurricane hit - Both of which are things that the Louisiana Governor and New Orleans Mayor failed to do.
Kelabu....I am not expressing sympathy...It is called "not being so single minded on issues", and looking at both ends of an issue.
Do you feel that you need sympathy?...Sorry,... But, we all have issues...I leave my sympathy for children that die young of diseases...You know, the kids that don't get a chance at life.
JustOne321...Talk about being single minded...
I remind you that there are really about 20 million illegals in this country...And, they are all over the economic map...Some are doing great (take a good look around), ...Some are doing pretty well...And, some live 10 - 15 to a room...
And, many that are living in these dire conditions are working their way out of it...And, sending money home to boot...
So, it is not a single answer issue...Nothing is...Including this topic.
We live in a world of 6 billion people...each with their own story and their own issues...So, looking at all angles is not changing ones mind about anything...It's about looking for many answers for many problems...
People can banter here and elsewhere from now to doomsday...I'd like to hear of one solution that has evolved for any of our lives problems...You know,..These very same problems that have existed since humans stood up and walked...We have always had war, always had strife with someone different from us, always had problems with migration shifts, religious differences, unresponsive, irresponible and downright criminal leaders...and everything else......
And you two got the simple single sided solutions!...Fantastic!!...Get right over to the G8 Summit....
For years we heard about the high unemployment among African American males. Yet, over the past 10 years or so, well over 10 million illegals came into this country and found jobs.
And, if you think that all of these jobs are at slave labor wages - You are out of touch with reality. Many of these illegals in the North-east are earning about $12 to $15/hour off the books. And, in other areas of the country they are also doing well.
Why - Because they are (economically) worth it to the contractors, landscapers and others that use them... And, the biggest reasons are - They get up on time every morning and are ready for a day's work...And, they don't think that Mondays are an extension of the week-end.
Someone mentioned in this thread that even the re-building jobs in New Orleans are going to the illegals - Guess why?....(please read hints above...).
Someone else in this thread challenged people by asking what they did to help contribute to the education of poor, inner city kids - How about asking the real fathers of these kids the same damn question?...They got time on their hands,...They're certainly not getting up in the morning to get the jobs that are available.
We all have eyes...Take a look around, and you will see that many new immigrants (incuding Mexico and Central America) are already living in better housing, have better cars, and are generally better off than the inner-city African Americans....This includes the people that benefitted from the amnesty in 1987, and even many of those that came here since then...And, the reason is "hard work".
As far as many people (of all ethnic groups) are concerned, the race card was spent all the way back at the OJ trial - When the African American community (overall) celebrated the fact that someone seemed to get away with the murder of white people. I don't think the African American community realizes how this affected the rest of the people in the country. And, it's been down-hill since.
The race card was further diluted in value during the hurricane in New Orleans - Let's face it, everyone knew why the African Americans stayed behind. They were not left behind because someone forgot about them - We watched it on television - They stayed for their own reasons...Looting time...Party time....
Someone here also mentioned that the race card was further diluted by the likes of Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson - That's for sure...For many of us in this country, these guys are just bad jokes.
So, Obama's warning of race riots? - Hey, good!...With all the decent soldiers that sacrificed in the Middle East, and that do deserve to come home to jobs, we'll have new security jobs for them - And, I am sure that the African Americans among them will be the angriest about the nonsense reasons put forth for any rioting...
For me, and I am sure many others, this statement by Obama clearly eliminates any credibitlity or trust in the man.
I really wish that life was better for African Americans - But, for too long, and after too many programs, all we hear is the tired excuse..."Well, its not so easy to erase the memories of hundreds of years of slavery"....Sure it is!,...Just ask any of the many other immigrant groups that came into this country from even more dire and painful conditions (And there are plenty)...They got over it,...By going to work....Just like many successful African Americans that jumped on the bandwagon and are also doing well.
Talk about single minded, you did write this post am I correct? Why didn't you apply your open minded view to African Americans in this post? You seem to have more empathy for illegal immigrants than any other group of people. By the way, African Americans are also all over the Economic Divide.
I really wish that life was better for African Americans - But, for too long, and after too many programs, all we hear is the tired excuse..."Well, its not so easy to erase the memories of hundreds of years of slavery"....Sure it is!,...Just ask any of the many other immigrant groups that came into this country from even more dire and painful conditions (And there are plenty)...They got over it,...By going to work....Just like many successful African Americans that jumped on the bandwagon and are also doing well.
As for the people who still live in the countries where the "even more dire and painful conditions" existed, how are they doing?
JustOne321 - Why didn't I apply my open minded view to African Americans?... It's pretty much summed up in the last sentence...In which I mention that many of them are indeed doing quite well with themselves... And, doesn't that say a lot?
Again, I brought up a number of issues that people do indeed think about. If anything, I am trying to let African Americans understand issues (or matters in mind) that other groups have (in relation to the controversy of the original subject of the thread, and the justifications behind the statement).
Marya - I do not understand your question (?)...If it is a question (rather than a placement of responsibility), then my answer would be that I think they are still doing quite poorly....There are indeed horrible problems through-out the world for many people of all races.
No one group has a monopoly on misery...Just as there is no one group responsible for all the misery in the world....Often, you will find that the perpetrators of the worse misery on any group are members of the same goup...In Africa, the slaughter is mostly by other Africans; In Spain the bombings are by other Iberians; In Ireland it is Irish Christian against Irish Christian; In the Middle East it is Arab Muslim against Arab Muslim; and the same on almost every continent in the world...It's tribal differences, religious sect differences...In other words, small differences...But, look at the consequences.
And, with that in mind, lets look back on the reason of this thread, the basis (and justification) of Obama's statement...And to the point that I was making...And a good summary of that is the feeling that many African Americans have not taken advantage of the opportunities that have been available to them and everyone else (And I say that because there are plenty of whites bitching about their situations) .
The illegal immigrants are here because they are filling a need for workers. In jobs that would have relieved the high unemployment of African Americans. And, many of those jobs are financially rewarding - There are plenty of the immigrants that remained under the 1987 amnesty, and many that more recently came here illegally, that are doing quite well. And we can see it with our own eyes.
It's a simple, economic fact that any employer will pay quite generously to keep a good, reliable worker. And that is indeed happening.
Last edited by migee; 06-08-2007 at 01:44 PM..
Reason: mis-spelling
I don't have time to expound on this, but considering this has reached 5 pages with out anyone knowing more about the substance of Obama's point besides one AP chosen snippet, I'd like to point everyone to this.
I don't have time to expound on this, but considering this has reached 5 pages with out anyone knowing more about the substance of Obama's point besides one AP chosen snippet, I'd like to point everyone to this. (http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2007/jun/05/associated_press_crappy_reporting_makes_obamas_rhe toric_sound_like_threat - broken link)
You didn't happen to notice that over 4 1/2 pages of it were a tangent did you???
Good find and thanks for pointing this out... I know so many people that have bought Obama's book to read up on what he is all about and this did seem way out of character for him. The ensuing tangent was just a more gripping discussion....
I don't have time to expound on this, but considering this has reached 5 pages with out anyone knowing more about the substance of Obama's point besides one AP chosen snippet, I'd like to point everyone to this. (http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2007/jun/05/associated_press_crappy_reporting_makes_obamas_rhe toric_sound_like_threat - broken link)
Thank you for sharing this. It made me think. I teach that --especially on the internet--one should not rely on only one source. I did just that, so in order to correct my mistake, I have now gone to Obama's website to read the entire speech. Very interesting, and I am relieved to know that his speech wasn't as polarizing as I first thought. This also served as another reminder to me how unreliable, sensationalized and biased the news reports can be.
Jdiddy, VA Fury and Scholar...Nice try...Very noble statements (towards the Obama campaign)...But, the discusssions of the thread did not divert away from the root of what he said, and apparently, what is part of his campaigning tactic - Getting the votes of inner city African Americans and sympathetic liberals with the old reliable "...poor victims of a biased system" rhetoric.
Again, we've all heard this for too long now. And, in a simple summary - The fact is that the long heard argument that there are no jobs of value available for the 10 million or so unemployed African American males has been proven wrong. As during the past decade, there are about 20 million illegals that came into this country looking for work, and they have it... They are working.
And, it is true that many of the jobs are low wage. But, there are also many that are paying very good wages.
And, the most significant fact is, that if the African American community itself had focused their (political) attention and efforts on the job market, rather than on social service and entitlements, the economic and political landscape of this country would be much different today. And much better for them.
They, and others that claim to be concerned with their plight, should have been actively working against the flow of illegal immigrants from the start... As this great flow did not happen overnight.
And, the simple economics are, if the flow of illegals was stopped at the beginning, overall wages in this country would have gone up considerably - Making many more jobs much more economically rewarding... Simple supply and demand.
So, the sum of it all is...Perhaps Obama is a nice guy, and I am sure very competent...But, his rhetoric shows that he is not right for the job as President.
Jdiddy, VA Fury and Scholar...Nice try...Very noble statements (towards the Obama campaign)...But, the discusssions of the thread did not divert away from the root of what he said, and apparently, what is part of his campaigning tactic - Getting the votes of inner city African Americans and sympathetic liberals with the old reliable "...poor victims of a biased system" rhetoric.
My point is simply that it's apparrent now that Obama is NOT warning of another Watts Riot, Liberty City Riot, etc... He's simply pointing out that there's still discontent due to a lack of hope. While I agree with you that this "lack of hope" may be more perceived than real in many cases, I'm sure I don't have to remind you what they say about perception......
Quote:
Originally Posted by migee
Again, we've all heard this for too long now. And, in a simple summary - The fact is that the long heard argument that there are no jobs of value available for the 10 million or so unemployed African American males has been proven wrong. As during the past decade, there are about 20 million illegals that came into this country looking for work, and they have it... They are working.
And, it is true that many of the jobs are low wage. But, there are also many that are paying very good wages.
Keep in mind in all of this the logistics of what is required by an employer to hire a legal citizen of the United States (A minimum wage, social security, etc....) and the simplistic process of hiring an illegal (here's $8 an hour under the table and off the books, now go home). This is really why there's a preferrence for illegals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by migee
And, the most significant fact is, that if the African American community itself had focused their (political) attention and efforts on the job market, rather than on social service and entitlements, the economic and political landscape of this country would be much different today. And much better for them.
Amen to this...... I think it goes for everyone in many aspects of society. With regards to Katrina, I wonder how much further along they'd be right now if they had been cleaning up and taking initiative as a community to fix things (to the extent they can) instead of waiting for the government to ride in on a white horse and bail them out. There was a time in this country where aid was not offered by the government after a natural disaster and people rebuilt themselves...... Is this what we've become???
Quote:
Originally Posted by migee
So, the sum of it all is...Perhaps Obama is a nice guy, and I am sure very competent...But, his rhetoric shows that he is not right for the job as President.
Not ready to draw that conclusion. There's some obvious pandering to his audience but let's be honest that this is just politicking.... Heck, Hillary would claim she used to be black while addressing a black crowd if she could somehow get away with it. As I see it Obama was addressing the concerns of his audience for that speech and that's that.
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Read everything with brain in gear
Thank you for sharing this. It made me think. I teach that --especially on the internet--one should not rely on only one source. I did just that, so in order to correct my mistake, I have now gone to Obama's website to read the entire speech. Very interesting, and I am relieved to know that his speech wasn't as polarizing as I first thought. This also served as another reminder to me how unreliable, sensationalized and biased the news reports can be.
