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I am a fan of Katy Perry. But one song of hers that I never understood was "Chained to the Rhythm". I've been told that it's about Trump and about how suburban life supposedly discriminates against women. I honestly see nothing in the lyrics suggesting that, so I never understood the song.
I also do not really see how suburban life discriminates against women. I see lyrics in that song that may be about conformity. I can understand the argument that suburban life is more based on conformity compared to urban or rural life. But I don't see that as an issue that affects one gender more than the other. But I'd be curious to hear if others do feel that it disproportionately affects women (or men).
As a man living in a suburban area, I can make the argument that suburban life discriminates against men. It seems that the suburbs were developed based on the premise that, at least at the time (when traditional gender roles were more the norm than today), that men would accept a longer commute to work in exchange for a bigger house, a yard, and a better school district that primarily the wife and kids would be home to enjoy. Women may make a valid argument that the larger house means more housework than a small apartment, and that the husband having a longer commute to work means that he is home less and able to do less housework and less parenting. But having a yard also means more yardwork than having an apartment, and, fairly or not, that tends to fall primarily to the husband.
Also, at least where I live, most men drive old, beat up cars that they drive to the train station to take the train into the city to work, while their wives drive expensive luxury cars. Even at my current job, in a suburban area, where everybody drives to work and does not commute to the city, my mostly male colleagues drive old, beat up cars while their wives drive luxury cars. When I was in K-12 school, in a suburban area, my male teachers mostly drove old, beat up cars that were of questionable safety, while my female teachers mostly drove expensive luxury cars, and obviously none of them were commuting to the city.
Anyway, now that I've made my argument that, if anything, suburban life is a sacrifice that men make in order to support their wives and children, I'm really curious to hear from others if they agree with me, or if they agree with Katy Perry about suburban life discriminating against women. Also curious to hear what lyrics in Chained to the Rhythm are about gender issues, suburban life, or Trump.
I should also mention that I've asked various family members, friends, and acquaintances who live in suburban areas, including my wife, about this, and none of them feel that suburban life discriminates against women (and some of them are fans of Katy Perry, and some of them do not like her).
I'm never heard the song to which you're referring. (Update: just read the lyrics. No Trump references--just the same complaints about materialism and conformity that folks have been putting into songs since the sixties. The drinking part is spot-on, though. I'd never seen so much constant wine consumption before I moved out to the suburbs.)
As someone who once lived in an affluent exurb, I wouldn't say that such suburbs discriminate against women so much as the need to conform to a certain ideal is very strong there. "Discriminate" is simply the wrong word to be used.
The push to have the perfect house with the right vehicles with kids who are constantly being ferried to and from their many activities all while looking a certain way was very strong and it came not from men or the community, but from other women. Peer pressure, after all, doesn't disappear after high school, but is alive and well--especially in the upscale suburbs. Competitive parenting (in particular, motherhood) is very much a real thing.
A high percentage of those ladies weren't doing their own housework nor were the men pushing a mower on the weekends. Those tasks were hired out.
As for Trump? I don't know about that, but I will tell you that most of the higher end suburbs around here are full-on Trump country, albeit for different reasons than why the rural areas tend to approve of him and his presidency.
My former husband disliked living in the suburbs, but I didn't know that until after we were divorced. The need to conform was stifling for both of us, but he thought that living in the suburbs in that sort of house was an outside indicator of success and just "what you did."
Last edited by Formerly Known As Twenty; 06-28-2020 at 06:49 AM..
I'm never heard the song to which you're referring. (Update: just read the lyrics. No Trump references--just the same complaints about materialism and conformity that folks have been putting into songs since the sixties. The drinking part is spot-on, though. I'd never seen so much constant wine consumption before I moved out to the suburbs.)
As someone who once lived in an affluent exurb, I wouldn't say that such suburbs discriminate against women so much as the need to conform to a certain ideal is very strong there. "Discriminate" is simply the wrong word to be used.
The push to have the perfect house with the right vehicles with kids who are constantly being ferried to and from their many activities all while looking a certain way was very strong and it came not from men or the community, but from other women. Peer pressure, after all, doesn't disappear after high school, but is alive and well--especially in the upscale suburbs. Competitive parenting (in particular, motherhood) is very much a real thing.
A high percentage of those ladies weren't doing their own housework nor were the men pushing a mower on the weekends. Those tasks were hired out.
As for Trump? I don't know about that, but I will tell you that most of the higher end suburbs around here are full-on Trump country, albeit for different reasons than why the rural areas tend to approve of him and his presidency.
My former husband disliked living in the suburbs, but I didn't know that until after we were divorced. The need to conform was stifling for both of us, but he thought that living in the suburbs in that sort of house was an outside indicator of success and just "what you did."
All that is true. But how does that disproportionately impact women? If the men are working long hour, long commute, high stress jobs, and hired help is doing the parenting and the housework, while the women are enjoying life, then I’d say that disproportionately impacts men.
All that is true. But how does that disproportionately impact women? If the men are working long hour, long commute, high stress jobs, and hired help is doing the parenting and the housework, while the women are enjoying life, then I’d say that disproportionately impacts men.
"Enjoying life ..."
The main reason that I've heard cited is that the stay-home parent never clocks out.
All that is true. But how does that disproportionately impact women? If the men are working long hour, long commute, high stress jobs, and hired help is doing the parenting and the housework, while the women are enjoying life, then I’d say that disproportionately impacts men.
A lot of what you're writing about is region specific.
For example, in the suburb where I once lived long commutes (greater than one hour) were a rarity as were nannies for stay-at-home mothers. People who employed nannies were either single working parents or lived in households with two working professionals. The use of lawn services is just "a thing" these days that transcends location. The people who did their own yard/garden work out where I used to live largely did it because they enjoyed such tasks.
In my own experience, the pressure to conform was far greater on women than on men. My former husband can vouch for that even though he also felt a bit of the pressure to have certain things, granted in his case the pressure came from his own family (and himself) rather than from the community.
Being a woman who didn't have children was especially socially isolating as so much of the socialization in the community revolved around children's activities--especially when the kids were very young. Even for those who did have kids, the constant ferrying about to multiple activities and events that occurred during the school day pretty much meant that a stay-at-home parent was an unwritten requirement--especially once multiple kids were in the picture. The kid-centricity of the modern era can isolate adults from grown-up interactions with other adults and it often seems as though it affects mothers more than fathers. Some of that is by choice, but a lot of it is enforced via subconscious peer pressure.
Physical appearances and brand names also counted for a lot. There's a certain "look" that most of the women had. I'll still occasionally do myself up in that way and laughingly call it the "*insert name of affluent community* Trophy Wife" look.
A lot of what you're writing about is region specific.
For example, in the suburb where I once lived long commutes (greater than one hour) were a rarity as were nannies for stay-at-home mothers. People who employed nannies were either single working parents or lived in households with two working professionals. The use of lawn services is just "a thing" these days that transcends location. The people who did their own yard/garden work out where I used to live largely did it because they enjoyed such tasks.
In my own experience, the pressure to conform was far greater on women than on men. My former husband can vouch for that even though he also felt a bit of the pressure to have certain things, granted in his case the pressure came from his own family (and himself) rather than from the community.
Being a woman who didn't have children was especially socially isolating as so much of the socialization in the community revolved around children's activities--especially when the kids were very young. Even for those who did have kids, the constant ferrying about to multiple activities and events that occurred during the school day pretty much meant that a stay-at-home parent was an unwritten requirement--especially once multiple kids were in the picture. The kid-centricity of the modern era can isolate adults from grown-up interactions with other adults and it often seems as though it affects mothers more than fathers. Some of that is by choice, but a lot of it is enforced via subconscious peer pressure.
Physical appearances and brand names also counted for a lot. There's a certain "look" that most of the women had. I'll still occasionally do myself up in that way and laughingly call it the "*insert name of affluent community* Trophy Wife" look.
All that is true, but there is also a lot of pressure on the men in those cases to earn enough money to support that lifestyle. And, there is also a lot of pressure on men with professional jobs to look a certain way. At my relatively modest suburban job, at least one male coworker was told to lose weight. A different male colleague was praised by our boss for “starving himself”. I was told years ago that I will never have a successful career unless I lose weight.
Sorry, I had you confused with a different poster.
I'm offering a different scenario. In my experience as a SAHM, hired help wasn't the norm.
But "staying home" doesn't = "spa day." I had a comment in one of your many other threads on this topic that I guess got deleted. It's a home, not a hotel. All who contribute to making the mess should contribute to cleaning the mess at a degree that is acceptable to both in the relationship.
What exactly are you wanting people to say here? Adulting is hard. Both sides of the equation have pressures the other can hardly imagine.
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Both sides of the equation have pressures the other can hardly imagine.
