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There is some evidence that points to both Portugal and England having been able to navigate to the great banks off of Newfoundland and back prior to the late 1400s. Great reserves of cod were the incentive.
There is also some evidence of the Vikings in the 1000-1100s. A few even say the Romans went to the coast of Texas from Portugal (Lusitania), believe it or not.
There is concrete evidence today, ourselves, that Colombus and his men did it and others quickly after them, and returned to talk about, in the late 1400s.
Anyway, the point is, how does one define Portugal, since when? But I would argue in any case, no matter the definition, Portugal is both/and Mediterranean, European, and Atlantic all at the same time, it's a complex society, like many, many others, not an amoeba or some other kind of single-celled organism.
It's not an either/or question, it's a question of which aspect one chooses to highlight at a given time for a given purpose.
During the time that I lived in Portugal about 12 years ago, I perceived all three identities, and also an African one, but in my perception overall the most prevalent was the European, including a growing number of eastern Europeans, then Mediterranean, then Atlantic, in that order, but in some neighborhoods in Lisboa, at least, decidedly African.
So even the either/or proposition of Mediterranean or Atlantic shortchanges the country, don't you think?
And even at the height of Portugal's global expansion via the Atlantic, it did not extricate itself from European politics, both southern and northern and all together.
The other 2nd main version of Mediterranean is Greece/Israel/Turkey/Cyprus/Lebanon and quite different from the 1st version of Southeastern France/coastal Italy/Spain/Portugal.
Sure, this western vs eastern mediterranean is where the concept of "west" (occident) vs "east" (orient) have its origin, before this east/west division has been applyed to the areas further north in Europe.
This has its origins in the Roman vs Greek cultures inside the empire. The western regions of the empire were under Roman rule and latin culture; while the eastern regions (most of) were moslty still under the Greek cultural domination, despite being inside the Roman empire they have not been latinized (excepted some places such as Dacia).
This opposition become a political division when the western Roman empire collapsed; while the eastern Roman empire still existed for 1000 more years, centred on Constantinople/Byzance Greek culture.
This division led to religious division of christianity: the west was still Roman catholic, while the east became orthodox. The Roman catholic religious/cultural influence spread to all the western part of Europe, even in the non-Romance areas; while the Orthodox did the same to the areas north of Constantinople/Byzance (now Russia, Ukraine, Romania, Serbia, etc.)
In the eastern mediterranean many areas became progressively muslim, and, from the 1500's most of the area bacame in the Ottoman domination. Many of nowadays cultural aspects of the eastern mediterranean are still the result of the mix of Byzantine (orthodox) and Ottoman (Muslim) cultures. While the cultural aspects of western mediterranean (excepted Maghreb) are the latin and Roman catholic cultural heritage.
There is some evidence that points to both Portugal and England having been able to navigate to the great banks off of Newfoundland and back prior to the late 1400s. Great reserves of cod were the incentive.
The first sailors to exploit cod in Terranova were Basque sailors. The first ones, proved by records and not hearsay, arrived there during the 16th Century. There are settlements founded in Terranova by Basque sailors. Back then, Terranova was Spanish.
There is also some evidence of the Vikings in the 1000-1100s. A few even say the Romans went to the coast of Texas from Portugal (Lusitania), believe it or not.
When Colombus set foot in Cuba (Kobba) in 1492, he observed that Indians were munching some sort of fried roll that he described as "elongated fritter" (fritura alargada).
Centuries later, professor Kow Lian Chieff, from the University of Poke County, wrote a big essay about the Chinese origin of the "elongated fritter". It seems that Chinese sailors taught Indians to make spring rolls.
Professor Akuavit, from the University of Uppsaloterinhjjungfordheim in Sweden, made some important diggings in Terranova. He found that ancient Indians had Ikea-like furniture.
Professor Chester Limeyrich, from Essex University, discovered fossilised crumpets in ancient eskimo huts in Newfoundland.
Yes, and not only Spain; Turquey should also not be a mediterranean country since it has more coasts on the Black sea and its dominant climate is continental...
I feel, by reading again all the posts here that many people have very restricted concepts of what can "mediterranean"; usually limited to the "summer costal clichés"; and found difficult to understand than their conception is in no way a shared absolute one. This vision seems spread among posters from countries of northern Europe (Britain), but also some Americans seem to share these vision that mediterranean = Italy and Greece only; and maybe Spain.
The problem is that each poster us his/her own definition with the idea that it is the only good one.
- Some posters based exclusively on climate stereotypes
- Some based their definition only on the fact of bordering the mediterranean sea
- Some consider cultural aspects such as Latin-based and Roman catholicism (or Greek/Orthodox)
- Some exclude muslim countries of north Africa and near east (for what reason?)
- Some speak about "mediterranean culture", sometimes without precisely being able to define what are the cultural criteriums they retain, etc.
All these positions can right and wrong in the same time, it depends of the concept and context.
France IS NOT considered a Mediterranean country, MOST of its coastline is Atlantic and faces West - MOST of Spains coastline is Mediterranean and faces south.
France IS NOT considered a Mediterranean country, MOST of its coastline is Atlantic and faces West - MOST of Spain's coastline is Mediterranean and faces south.
Gee, I don't know, Cyprus, southern Italy and Rome, Egypt, Tunisia, Syria, Lebanon, Suez Canal, Algeria, recently even Libya?
Nah, France has no interest in the Mediterranean and is not a Mediterranean power, never had and never was.
And its shape is a narrow rectangle, facing one way, not a hexagon facing in six directions, and it has two eyes very close together, no stereo vision whatsoever, and it has no historical memory, past, present or future.
Everything in life is either/or, it is never both/and, and the earth is flat.
05-29-2013, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermosaa
Portugal should have just been included because it is very Mediterranean in culture, food, architecture and people.
Yeah, most people would agree Portugal is very Mediterranean for most of life and culture, and a bit ironic since the coastline is instead along the Atlantic ocean.
There is a similar correlation on the opposite side of the continuum spectrum with Albania, Montenegro, Croatia, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, and Libya bordering parts of the Mediterranean sea while not really being Mediterranean in life, culture, and in personality compared to Southeastern France/coastal Italy/Spain/Portugal and Greece/Israel/Turkey/Cyprus/Lebanon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
There is cultural stereotypes and specific personality traits for the Mediterranean life. This is mostly positive, optimistic, appreciative, respectful viewing for Mediterranean cultural regions and some areas of the Mediterranean being especially peaceful, being very soulful, and healthy lifestyle.
Portugal appears to have a Mediterranean life and culture, even if the coastline is technically not along the Mediterranean sea and instead the Atlantic ocean.
However, not all places qualifying for Mediterranean life and culture are the same. There is variation depending on exact country and region, including French Mediterranean vs. Italian Mediterranean vs. Spain vs. Portugal etc. They overall have enough similarities to occasionally be grouped together for 1 main version of the Mediterranean.
The other 2nd main version of Mediterranean is Greece/Israel/Turkey/Cyprus/Lebanon and quite different from the 1st version of Southeastern France/coastal Italy/Spain/Portugal.
France IS NOT considered a Mediterranean country, MOST of its coastline is Atlantic and faces West - MOST of Spains coastline is Mediterranean and faces south.
Both France and Spain are Mediterranean, since "Mediterranean" is a cultural concept. The dominating culture in both countries came from the Mediterranean. Spain's Atlantic coast (facing north) almost equals the Mediterranean coast.
Regarding the missing house numbers, I have never come across that. What we do indeed not state is names on doorbells and mail boxes (in my rental contract it expressly forbidden to write my name anywhere). So you can basically send your friend a letter without writing their name on the envelope. The mailman doesn't care about names and people, he will deliver the letter only based on street and house number (one more reason why that claim about missing house numbers is ridiculous).
Regarding Fado, I think that is a myth. 1) Most people here don't listen to Fado more than other genres, actually way less. Fado is known abroad, but do all Americans listen to Jazz? Certainly not. 2) A lot of Fado is not sad at all. Many of those songs are simply about everyday life, just like there are pop songs about breaking up and solitude and what not.
Frankly, people here laugh a lot, more so than in richer countries. The Spaniard keep saying we are sad over here, but I guess they only say that because we are not as loud as they are.
I do agree that the Portuguese have low self-esteem, which is why they are so desperate for every little success and recognition. Sometimes they all but force foreign guests to make compliments by asking them what they think of this country and its people. It is embarrassing, but people here don't realize.
And yes, I think it is a Mediterranean country to a certain extent, regardless of geography. But there is no focus on the Mediterranean, it does not play any role as far as I can see. People here think and feel Atlantic.
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