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To add to my point, Greater Ukraine was well-recognized about 100 years ago. This map was presented at the Paris Peace Conference in 1919. As you can see, Kuban is included with Ukraine:
In 1919 Ukraine and Russia were drowned in the blood of the Civil War. These maps is fantasies of some persons.
You think that the Cossack lands is the territory of ethnic Ukrainians living, but it is not true. The Cossacks were multinational, Russians (velikorosy) accounted for a large share of the Cossacks.
"Novorossiya" was not a popular uprising. It is a majority Ukrainian region, and many of the ethnic Russians, too, are against the terrorists & their plans. The overthrow of Yanukovych was a popular uprising. Yanukovych fled the country prior to his removal! Terrorist-scum are backed by the Kremlin - and they suppress, torture, and terrorize Ukrainians patriots.
BS.
The whole "overthrow of Yanukovych" was prepared and financed by CIA. Ukrainians could just elect a new president if they did not like Yanukovych, peacefully and lawfully, in due time.
Instead a new pro-US president was promoted illegally through overturn, and that sparked tensions between east and west of Ukraine.
The blood of thousands of murdered Ukrainian women and children is on Obama's hands, as well as all Americans since they support the system of aggressive military interference in internal affairs of foreign countries.
BS.
The whole "overthrow of Yanukovych" was prepared and financed by CIA. Ukrainians could just elect a new president if they did not like Yanukovych, peacefully and lawfully, in due time.
Instead a new pro-US president was promoted illegally through overturn, and that sparked tensions between east and west of Ukraine.
The blood of thousands of murdered Ukrainian women and children is on Obama's hands, as well as all Americans since they support the system.
Actually, what you write is BS.
The US supported the Ukrainian side - yes. So what? The support was rather mild. The Kremlin supports the terrorists.
Yanukovych was going to sell the country out to the highest bidder - Russia. Democracy means rule by the people, as I explained. However, it includes no condition as to how this is done. Ousting a corrupt sellout in a timely manner (before Eurasian Union membership could have been effected) is a form of self-rule.
The terrorists took control of MAJORITY UKRAINIAN AREAS - these terrorist scum are not supported by the local Ukrainians. Many local Russians, too, don't support them. In order to keep a stranglehold on the population, pro-Ukrainians were eliminated. Ukrainians have been killed, detained, and tortured. You cannot freely support Ukraine in these "republics." "Novorossiya" fighters are bloody terrorist scum.
But you know what else? As a result of Russian aggression, now Ukraine is more united in opposition to Kremlin aggression and Russian chauvinism. Ukrainians know what you write is BS because we know the Kremlin is the aggressor, without whose presence the rebellion by terrorists would have been much more short-lived.
How UNDEMOCRATIC is it that the Kremlin wanted to establish a colony stretching from Odesa to Kharkiv, even though all those areas are majority ethnic Ukrainian?!
Judging by Kremlin propaganda, you'd think they were majority Russian. Those particular regions are majority Russian-speaking. But that is because of Soviet russification policies. There is a distinction between language and ethnicity that anyone of reasonable intelligence should be able to comprehend.
The US supported the Ukrainian side - yes. So what? The support was rather mild. The Kremlin supports the terrorists.
Yanukovych was going to sell the country out to the highest bidder - Russia. Democracy means rule by the people, as I explained. However, it includes no condition as to how this is done. Ousting a corrupt sellout in a timely manner (before Eurasian Union membership could have been effected) is a form of self-rule.
.
Another BS from a brainwashed guy or paid CIA troll.
The "terrorists" came uninvited in form of CIA operatives who had boots on the ground during the whole "maidan" thing.
Russia is only supported the right of eastern Ukrainians to speak their native language (Russian) and decide their own fate without "help" of terrorists in form of new fascist "government" promoted by State Dep: the local scam which CIA bought for cheap.
How can a country like US which does not have any democracy itself and is ruled by big money which completely corrupt so called "elected" officials, promote democracy in other countries? Answer is: they don't, they just want a piece of pie, Baiden's son already has big stake, and probably promised a piece of Ukraine land to Obama, which authorized this whole war.
Another BS from a brainwashed guy or paid CIA troll.
The "terrorists" came uninvited in form of CIA operatives who had boots on the ground during the whole "maidan" thing.
Russia is only supported the right of eastern Ukrainians to speak their native language (Russian) and decide their own fate without "help" of terrorists in form of new fascist "government" promoted by State Dep: the local scam which CIA bought for cheap.
How can a country like US which does not have any democracy itself and is ruled by big money which completely corrupt so called "elected" officials, promote democracy in other countries? Answer is: they don't, they just want a piece of pie, Baiden's son already has big stake, and probably promised a piece of Ukraine land to Obama, which authorized this whole war.
Get it though your head that I don't care about the American role in this that much. Nor do most Ukrainians, who see Russia more negatively than the U.S. I support Ukraine because of my Ukrainian heritage. You seem to see everything though a US/cia/NWO lens. I don't. Russia has a long history of imposing genocide and russification on Ukraine. My people are rightly leery of them, and it all came to a breaking point when Yanukovych was going to sell the country out and into the Eurasian Union with huylo.
Loads of Ukrainians started Maidan. The notion that the US had any real role in cultivating the revolutionary spirit comes from the position of total unawareness about Ukraine. As many formerly terrorist-occupied areas were liberated by Ukrainian forces, local Ukrainian patriots took to the streets to celebrate. Like I said, the terrorists are a cabal of Kremlin agitators, not eastern Ukrainians (who are Ukrainians, even if they speak Russian, as their ancestors were Ukrainian).
Even most ethnic Russians in the east benefit from being in Ukrainian controlled territory and not one of those failed republics.
Lviv is included in the map because Ukrainians fought for it. East Galicia is Ukrainian ethnic land. Lviv was originally a Ukrainian city, but long a part of Poland.
LOL, your Ukrainian Republic only lasted a few months, and they decided upon themselves to include Lviv without the consent of the majority Poles who lived there, in which they eventually tossed the Ukrainians all out.
So you proclaim that since you held onto Lviv for all of a few months, you think it is somehow was part of Ukraine? Donbass has been separated from Ukraine for much, much longer, yet you give no recognition to it.
Lviv was never part of Ukraine until WW2. Merely occupying a city does not make it part of anything, if that was the case, then Germany has claim to all of Ukraine because it occupied it during WW2, and occupied it longer than the West Ukraine Republic ever occupied Lviv.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90
Ukraine belongs to Ukrainians. Democracy is when the people rule. The ousting of an unpopular, corrupt leader who wanted to sell the country to russia for incorporation into the Eurasian Union is a GOOD THING.
You seem to think all Ukrainians think as one group, which you are far from being correct. You have it brainwashed in your mind that all Ukrainians are as one, and all think the same and are untied in all social and political thought. Fact is, Ukrainians are a very divided group, even your own link above states this very clearly.
Last edited by Rozenn; 05-10-2016 at 03:30 AM..
Reason: Orphaned
Yanukovych was going to sell the country out to the highest bidder - Russia. Democracy means rule by the people, as I explained. However, it includes no condition as to how this is done. Ousting a corrupt sellout in a timely manner (before Eurasian Union membership could have been effected) is a form of self-rule.
Yanukovich was going to enter into a vital trade agreement that would have provided billions of dollars to Ukraine. But the peasants in west Ukraine wanted their visas to the EU so they could all flee Ukraine for the welfare states of west Europe like the Poles did.
Yanukovich was elected, that is democracy rule. However, some people did not like the vote nor democracy, so they removed him by force. Do you remove the Orange revolt? How did that turn out? Oh yea, turned out so bad they voted Yanukovich back in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90
The terrorists took control of MAJORITY UKRAINIAN AREAS - these terrorist scum are not supported by the local Ukrainians. Many local Russians, too, don't support them. In order to keep a stranglehold on the population, pro-Ukrainians were eliminated. Ukrainians have been killed, detained, and tortured. You cannot freely support Ukraine in these "republics." "Novorossiya" fighters are bloody terrorist scum.
Wait, so you have no issue with Ukrainians in 1918 taking control of Lviv, and majority Polish city, but have issues with Donbass now? Numerous Ukranians do not want to be part of Keiv, and the leader of the Donetsk Republic, Zakharchenko, is Ukrainian along with the majority of the armed forces there. I have no idea where you get that no Ukrainians are part of the rebel movement, they created the movement after west Ukrainians ousted the president the majority of Donbass residents voted for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90
But you know what else? As a result of Russian aggression, now Ukraine is more united in opposition to Kremlin aggression and Russian chauvinism. Ukrainians know what you write is BS because we know the Kremlin is the aggressor, without whose presence the rebellion by terrorists would have been much more short-lived.
More united? You mean the physical fights in the Rada, the constant rotating of senior positions with Groysman now the new PM, and the constant protests in Kiev, oh yea, the fact that Donbass is not functionally part of Ukraine. Yea, real united.
I love how you pin all the blame on Russia, obtuse to the fact numerous Ukrainians want nothing to do with Kiev. You are all hyped up on this ethnic unity when in fact no one there is united due to ethnicity. Ethnic Ukrainians vary greatly in their political, cultural, and social norms, something your link in your previous post even stated.
I support Ukraine because of my Ukrainian heritage. You seem to see everything though a US/cia/NWO lens. I don't.
No, no, you support what you view as the correct political path, not that you support Ukraine. There are numerous Ukrainians who support a different ideology than you and consider themselvs "supporting Ukraine".
Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90
Russia has a long history of imposing genocide and russification on Ukraine. My people are rightly leery of them, and it all came to a breaking point when Yanukovych was going to sell the country out and into the Eurasian Union with huylo.
Imposing genocide? When did that happen? The only thing close to genocide was the Holodomor, which occurred during the USSR and was orchestrated by Stalin, a Georgian, and carried out by ethnic Ukrainians and Russians among other ethnic groups. In addition to numerous Ukrainians killed, numerous Russians and other groups were killed as well.
As explained before, Yanukovich was the legitimately elected president, and he was conducting legal presidential duties. However, the peasants in west Ukraine wanted a chance to get their EU visas and leave Ukraine, so they participated in ousting this democratically elected leader by force, in violation of the Ukrainian constitution. But what is the constitution to those types, they believe in ruling by force, not by civil elections.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90
Loads of Ukrainians started Maidan. The notion that the US had any real role in cultivating the revolutionary spirit comes from the position of total unawareness about Ukraine. As many formerly terrorist-occupied areas were liberated by Ukrainian forces, local Ukrainian patriots took to the streets to celebrate. Like I said, the terrorists are a cabal of Kremlin agitators, not eastern Ukrainians (who are Ukrainians, even if they speak Russian, as their ancestors were Ukrainian).
Loads of Ukrainians rebelled in Donbass and Crimea. The notion that Russia had any real role in cultivating revolutionary spirit comes from the position of total unawareness about Ukraine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90
Even most ethnic Russians in the east benefit from being in Ukrainian controlled territory and not one of those failed republics.
And even more Ukrainians benefit from fleeing to Russia for work and to avoid mobilization. Those failed republics have lasted a lot longer than your so loved West Ukrainian Republic, yet you legitimize the latter and do not legitimize the former. This is why the conflict will not end, you all cannot get it through your heads they do not want to be part of Kiev. Two revolts is enough, the last revolt ousted the president the majority of Donbass voted for. See the election map below; coincidence that the areas that revolted also are the ones who voted heavily for Yanukovich? And who would have benefited most from the Russian deal? Of course it is not a coincidence.
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