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Old 03-02-2014, 09:04 PM
 
338 posts, read 335,192 times
Reputation: 162

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Some people curse in English because those words are short and because they don't mean anything. I can say f*ck just like that, there is no emotion or association, it is just a word. If, however, I used the word that means the same thing in my mother tongue, it would be embarrassing and vulgar, and someone might be offended.
I would like to introduce you to read some victorian era literature and see the main theme of English I assign to it.
They say that French is sophistication, German is philosophy, Spanish is romance etc. I believe English is good for horror and dread a la Mary Shelley or Edgar Allen Poe (The narration in Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs captures what I mean)

And frankly, English became the way it is outside of its qualities, and the lack of a language academy meant no standard to look to so it was easy for things to fall through the cracks, mind you American English is what we speak, a semi creole of pre 18th century English and whatever the immigrants brought over. I wish it were the days of Thomas Hobbes and all.
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Old 03-02-2014, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Abruzzo
169 posts, read 294,157 times
Reputation: 346
You know I never really grasped the importance of ENGLISH until one of my trips to Rome in 2006. I was eating lunch in a restaurant close to the Coliseum and I noticed something rather interesting. Sitting around me were tourists that were Polish, Spanish, and Chinese. When it came time to for everybody to order they all ordered their food in English as English was the ONLY language all those people had in common with the (italian) waiter. Although just from the accents it was clear that nobody was a native English speaker. Anyway, until that experience happened to me (especially because I'm all for learning languages) I never realized that English was truly the entire world's second language. The lingua franca if you must.
As far as Europeans sentiment towards English I have never met anyone opposed (at least not in Italy) as everyone realizes it's importance. Also, every now and then the Italian gov. tries to pass legislation which would make it mandatory that every italian student studies English. Also, the Italian language has gotten bombarded by English words as of recent. Top, Spending Review, flash/flashback, full-time, single, brunch, selfie, foto-camera, rating, party, login, password, browser, etc these are words that are used everyday in the Italian language as they are in English. Therefore, one must either adapt (learn english) or get left behind.
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Old 03-03-2014, 01:01 AM
 
1,267 posts, read 3,075,578 times
Reputation: 1254
i think its good to have a lingua franca. i dont think it dominates the whole world. Mexico is its closest non English neighbors, its the third larger partners yet it English speakers make a small minority.

i like english its soft spoken and fluid. i like when girls speak it, sounds very feminine. but when most guys speak it doesn't sound masculine at all. if German sounds angry, English sounds girly, not that there is nothing wrong with that.

i think everyone should learn a second language. i know Spanish and i can make sense of alot of writing Portuguese. you can't say the same with english to German or dutch
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Old 03-03-2014, 01:03 AM
 
Location: North West Northern Ireland.
20,633 posts, read 23,881,321 times
Reputation: 3107
I think Russians and Italian men sound far too masculine.

Almost like they are coughing and spitting.
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Old 03-03-2014, 01:48 AM
 
Location: Bremerhaven, NW Germany
2,714 posts, read 3,044,995 times
Reputation: 934
I don't feel bad about English being the lingua franca among european folks.
It's much easier to learn than e.g. French or German (working in a office, where people can take german language courses, i see that some people can have quite a hard time with the German language).
So using it as a lingua franca among the european folks is fine to me.
I am also happy when i have the rare ability to speak English with people, its good when you can master your language skills in that way.

However there is a form of English, that i don't like. Its called "Denglish" german advertisements being mixed with english terms with are totally out of place in that context or even being a pseudo english word.
For example the word "Handy" which is used here to refer to a mobile / cell phone. has quite a different meaning in English. So if people use that word in an english speaking country they would either be not understandable at all or even get in trouble for that.

Handy has now become integrated into the german vocabulary, but generally when there is a german expression available for an english word in german i am mostly using the german term.
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Old 03-03-2014, 06:32 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,749,338 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahhammer View Post
I would like to introduce you to read some victorian era literature and see the main theme of English I assign to it.
They say that French is sophistication, German is philosophy, Spanish is romance etc. I believe English is good for horror and dread a la Mary Shelley or Edgar Allen Poe (The narration in Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs captures what I mean)

And frankly, English became the way it is outside of its qualities, and the lack of a language academy meant no standard to look to so it was easy for things to fall through the cracks, mind you American English is what we speak, a semi creole of pre 18th century English and whatever the immigrants brought over. I wish it were the days of Thomas Hobbes and all.
I don't think language academies mean much as people speak the way they want and all the academies can do is react. Either they include the changes in their standards, or they become outdated. Languages are works in progress, not finished objects displayed at a museum. There are such academies for Portuguese and Spanish, but both languages are changing rapidly because native speakers don't give a crap about what those academies say. The academies are busy enough trying to catch up with reality. The only aspect where they still play a role is standardizing orthography, but that is just a superficial aspect of language.
Regarding English in particular, while most Indians are not really fluent, there are a few excellent writers, and interestingly their English is very progressive and eclectic, they don't care about any standards. Same goes for some African writers, especially from Nigeria.

I read some old English literature at the university, but never liked it, I don't like any old literature regardless of the language. I never understood the fuss about Shakespeare or Goethe. Those people were no wiser than my mother and many other people I know. People are people, and there is only so much to life, be it today or hundreds or thousands of years ago. I care more about what people today have to say as it might be important to me, whereas classical literature has no importance to me. In certain circles, having read that old stuff is good for bragging how educated you are, that's all there is to it.
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Old 03-03-2014, 06:41 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,749,338 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by njusa2013 View Post
You know I never really grasped the importance of ENGLISH until one of my trips to Rome in 2006. I was eating lunch in a restaurant close to the Coliseum and I noticed something rather interesting. Sitting around me were tourists that were Polish, Spanish, and Chinese. When it came time to for everybody to order they all ordered their food in English as English was the ONLY language all those people had in common with the (italian) waiter. Although just from the accents it was clear that nobody was a native English speaker. Anyway, until that experience happened to me (especially because I'm all for learning languages) I never realized that English was truly the entire world's second language. The lingua franca if you must.
As far as Europeans sentiment towards English I have never met anyone opposed (at least not in Italy) as everyone realizes it's importance. Also, every now and then the Italian gov. tries to pass legislation which would make it mandatory that every italian student studies English. Also, the Italian language has gotten bombarded by English words as of recent. Top, Spending Review, flash/flashback, full-time, single, brunch, selfie, foto-camera, rating, party, login, password, browser, etc these are words that are used everyday in the Italian language as they are in English. Therefore, one must either adapt (learn english) or get left behind.
Yes, Rome is a tourist magnet, so at restaurants, shops etc. they do speak English. But Italy as a whole is not very fluent in English, which is a bit surprising as unlike Spanish or Portuguese, Italian is not a major global language, it is basically only spoken in Italy.

Interestingly, in Portuguese there are Portuguese equivalents to almost all those words in bold, and they are used instead of the English ones.
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Old 03-03-2014, 01:53 PM
 
4,449 posts, read 4,619,209 times
Reputation: 3146
Quote:
In Germany many advitisers put German in very small font while they put the whole thing in big English letters:
My reaction: You're forcing people to adjust to someone else's cultures!
You know here in US cities particularly those with sizable Hispanic/Latino populations signs are bi-lingual. Interesting in the sense that demographic trends plot the Hispanic percent of population in the next 3-4 decades to be almost 50% and whites will be in a 'minority'. English no doubt would be continue to be the dominant language but I'd think bi-lingualism will probably increase. And no doubt the combination of spoken English and Spanish could morph the former in some ways thus enabling it in contributing to its apparent staying power throughout the world.
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Old 03-03-2014, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Hong Kong / Vienna
4,491 posts, read 6,345,766 times
Reputation: 3986
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
^ I'm surprised folks aren't more annoyed about it really.
Well, we aren't upset about it because it's blown way out of proportion by some on this board.
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Old 03-03-2014, 05:30 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
2,866 posts, read 5,243,943 times
Reputation: 3425
Quote:
Originally Posted by The East Frisian View Post
However there is a form of English, that i don't like. Its called "Denglish" german advertisements being mixed with english terms with are totally out of place in that context or even being a pseudo english word.
For example the word "Handy" which is used here to refer to a mobile / cell phone. has quite a different meaning in English. So if people use that word in an english speaking country they would either be not understandable at all or even get in trouble for that.

Handy has now become integrated into the german vocabulary, but generally when there is a german expression available for an english word in german i am mostly using the german term.
We do the same in Dutch. Some English words have a totally different meaning when used in a Dutch context than they do in English. One example I can think of is the word "loverboy". I Dutch, a loverboy refers to a young man who exploits girls, something like a pimp. It's a very negative term.

We also use the word fitness for gym, beamer for projector, string for thong (underwear), etc. So we still kind of make it our own
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