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Old 07-14-2020, 07:52 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,446,414 times
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I knew that Dyatolov thing would start a chit show.
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Old 07-14-2020, 07:55 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,446,414 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
$7,000 of combined debt is pennies compared to what it’s like for most students these days, the average debt owned in 2020 is $35,397 with a combined student debt of $1.64 trillion. I took some courses in a cheep community college, paid out of pocket (wasn’t eligible for financial aide) and then I realized it wasn’t worth it so dropped out and went to a programming bootcamp and now work as a LiveSite engineer and make more money than many of my cousins who went to university. The US education system is a complete scam and can’t wait till the student loan bubble pops because it’s not sustainable. And then in the midst of this pandemic where universities are switching to online are still demanding the same tuition lol.

It's a disaster. Not only that while all this was going on education in the trades was being neglected. There's people with degrees in business working at Starbucks wishing they were plumbers. The trades are hurting bigtime.
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Old 07-14-2020, 08:01 PM
 
Location: Russia
1,348 posts, read 625,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
Acquiring an education at a university is not a huge problem if you have the ability. Paying for it is an entirely different matter.

When my daughters were finished and had their degrees in their hands they owed around $7000 combined. They were lucky. Me and their mom both poured everything we had into their educations, they worked also.

There are other millenials out there who were saddled with crippling debt and are to this day. The higher education system here is corrupt, mismanaged and often what you pay to learn is of little use in the real world. The system is about profit, not education

I meant this:

Quote:
In the US are so many scholarships of various levels (up to 100% of the cost),
Because no matter who I read or listen to, they write everywhere and say that 99% of Americans who have graduated from universities, the main debt is the debt for education.
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Old 07-14-2020, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Russia
1,348 posts, read 625,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
It's a disaster. Not only that while all this was going on education in the trades was being neglected. There's people with degrees in business working at Starbucks wishing they were plumbers. The trades are hurting bigtime.
Now I understand why Russia has free places to study at universities! As the DKM says, this is because Putin and his cronies have stolen everything, the population has no money and they are not able to pay millions for learning. And in order to somehow educate the population, the Putin regime reluctantly has to allocate budget places.
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Old 07-14-2020, 08:10 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,861,761 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimogor View Post
I meant this:



Because no matter who I read or listen to, they write everywhere and say that 99% of Americans who have graduated from universities, the main debt is the debt for education.
Well no, that's not close to 99%. Most kids go to cheaper state schools and parents pay for at least part of their way if not the whole thing. Some colleges are free to anyone, but they aren't the best quality. Most state schools cost about 6 to 10k a year. Any smart kid who doesn't come from a rich family can get up to 100% of college for free. The same as in France, UK, Russia, etc. I know several. Student debt is biggest for kids who go to private college and don't get financial aid or don't have parents pay for it. You might ask why they do this, but they weren't smart enough for a scholarship in the first place. Others take out debts because they are low interest and use them for living expenses. I know several of those too.

Free Russian universities are only good if they are selective. The ones anybody can get into are worthless as emigrants have painfully learned. Another big difference between our universities is that in America nobody pays for good grades. I know you don't believe me, but its true.
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Old 07-14-2020, 08:32 PM
 
26,790 posts, read 22,561,271 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
yes but couldn't one assume that they are not "real" opposition parties because they are trying to survive so they don't make too many waves and only push on minor things that the UR party doesn't care about. But if any of these parties get a huge wave of support something to the extant that the communists experienced back in the late 90s/early 2000s that they would feel emboldened to push harder? Also would you say the communists were a real opposition force back then?

Oh, Zuganov was in real opposition to Yeltsin - no doubt about that. Yeltsin would have probably lost to him, if not for couple of circumstances; General Lebed' withdrawing from elections and endorsing Yeltsin ( and giving him his votes,) and heavy financing of Yeltsin's campaign coming from the oligarchs. ( Whether /how much the West was involved into all this - I don't know.)

That's from what I remember.



Quote:
Also I haven't heard anything about Grudinin since the election, sad news. I heard some people were saying that he was "playing" a spoiler candidate, but if that is the case wouldn't the UR reward him for playing the part?
No he was not a "spoiler," he was a real thing, and that's why the gang destroyed him with vengeance, with the help of legal means, after his attempt to challenge them.

Just to send a message to anyone, who would try to challenge Putin.


That's Grudinin few days ago, talking about his legal troubles now. His once-thriving business ( kolkhoz) is destroyed.


[Mod cut: foreign language]

Quote:
Well in any case I hope Khabarovsk gives Moscow hell and show the rest of Russia how to build a responsible government.
This was the first bell, but it's not time yet.

America needs to be shaken severely first, in order to stop being a threat to Russia, and only THEN Russians can sort out their internal problems.

Only then it will be their turn - that's the way I understand the developing situation overall.

Last edited by elnina; 07-16-2020 at 10:26 AM..
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Old 07-14-2020, 09:06 PM
 
26,790 posts, read 22,561,271 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
I knew that Dyatolov thing would start a chit show.

Well had to report what I saw.
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Old 07-15-2020, 01:13 AM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,236,535 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Maxim, I've heard about Rakitin's book. ( People that still discuss this case are referring to it - I saw some excerpts from it, which actually correspond to what I saw in original files.)
But of course (on the basis of everything else that I saw in those files) I can't take his theory ( the one you summed up here) seriously.
With that being said, I do believe that Zolotarev ( his presence in the group) leaves a lot of questions, and most likely, he was in fact someone from one of the local "security organizations."

And the reason he was sent with this expedition was precisely that - there were some suspicious reports coming from this area earlier most likely, and he had to discreetly check on the reports.

That's why he was *incorporated* into the group, where no one really had ties to him ( even for the age difference,) no one really knew him, and the last but not least - he was not even qualified for the rout of this difficulty level.
As the witnesses were telling, ( who knew the participants personally) - Igor Dyatlov was usually VERY PICKY about whom he was taking on his team.

But keeping in mind the time frame when the whole incident took place, ( back in the 50ies, barely out of Stalin's times,) when/if someone would call him in some office and said "meet your new teammate who will join you on your upcoming trip") Dyatlov wouldn't ask too many questions, obviously so.

Zolotarev was the only other person who had the camera on him from what I remember, but he had it on him at all times, and the film was destroyed unfortunately by water, when they found it along with his dead body.
But anyways, let me sum it up briefly, what I saw in the files based on all witnessing, autopsies, and chief investigator's feedback.


So the students went on this planned trip ( all were qualified for this level of difficulty of the chosen rout, except for Zolotarev as I've already mentioned.)

They didn't come back to scheduled location on time to report the accomplished expedition, so the the authorities were alerted, and had to send the search team ( obviously, because the parents of these students were sounding the alarm, plus the whole town already knew about their disappearance.

The first search team found the abandoned tent, that was cut from the inside, when apparently the students were leaving it in a hurry.

They found the flashlight on top of the tent, which indicated that two of them were apparently outside, and alerted the rest about the nearing danger.

Once out of the tent, ( some of them didn't even have the shoes on - that's what the tracks indicated,) they, however, left as one organized group, going step in step, precisely as they were trained (that's what the experienced hikers noted.)

Then their tracks were lost going down the valley, and then they found dead students at a certain distance ( well part of them.)
The first reaction of the search team was "whatever happened here, was the result of poor training, hypothermia, la-la," - at least that's the way the FIRST investigator wanted to report it, but already then it was clear that something very odd took place there.

The odd clothing swaps, their unexplained actions when they were trying to start the fire (there were plenty of dry shrubs around, but they were trying to cut the young fir trees instead,) the way they were climbing on the tall cedar, using it as a cover, when they were observing what was going on near their tent, their reluctance to proceed to the storage ( лабаз) where they could find food and other provision left earlier, and so on.

And the last but not least - the slightly burned branches of the near-by trees and elevated radiation level - the common features spotted during the Rendlesham forest incident.

( I Mean I could figure that much out, since I saw the detailed description of that incident as well.)

Then of course the positions they found students in, the fact that they were trying to crawl back to their tent - there were already plenty of questionable things ( they would become even more questionable during the autopsies - like the knuckles of Dyatlov had the kind of injuries, consistent with that he was pounding something with his fist - so the investigation was even trying to come up with a theory that student got drunk and got into a fistfight, but this, of course, was soon declined as unrealistic.)

But anyways, the initial findings were not qualified as anything "criminal," yet they couldn't close the case, because the rest of the team was not yet found.

Few months later, when they sent the second search team and found the rest in a totally different location ( that part of the group that got separated ( I assumed they got separated while running away from something - just my guess,) well- that part of the group apparently survived much longer, on the bottom of the ravine, ( овраг). They've even built some kind of platform from trees, but what happened to them next, was probably the most horrifying page of the whole ordeal.

The eyes and tongue of one of the students were removed ( the tongue for sure when she was still alive - that's according to autopsy,) the ribs of some of them were crashed with no external injuries whatsoever ( a big puzzle to the pathologist,) so at this point of course the investigators HAD to open the criminal case. They started with the local Mansi people, questioning whether THEY could kill the students, on a basis of local beliefs that students violated some "sacred places," but Mansi said that no, they had good relations with Russians in the area, BUT they drew the picture of some spaceship that they spotted about time the students died, flying in the direction of the mountain, where the whole ordeal took place. This particular drawing has been removed from files and sent directly to Moscow, where one of the top Soviet gov. officials ( don't remember the name now,) was personally overseeing the case.

Among other details, I should mention all the reports of the UFO activities in the area ( made by numerous witnesses and the local newspaper ( yep, I saw the copy of original article - the chief editor was rebuked and later dismissed from his job) and on and on.
And I won't even mention the Ivanov's statements ( the second investigator that took over the case,) and what the parents and other participating in funerals described when they saw the deceased.


So nope, DEFINITELY not the "avalanche."

All this logically and gracefully fits into the theory of the work of special services. I forgot a little yesterday, there is a more complicated story. The UFO that Mansi saw could be an American landing plane. A spy from the atomic city was recruited by KGB. It was a KGB operation to transmit misinformation to foreign intelligence. But the operation was failed and the group was destroyed in 2 stages (part of the group managed to escape from the camp and was then caught using torture).
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Old 07-15-2020, 02:03 AM
 
26,790 posts, read 22,561,271 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
All this logically and gracefully fits into the theory of the work of special services. I forgot a little yesterday, there is a more complicated story. The UFO that Mansi saw could be an American landing plane. A spy from the atomic city was recruited by KGB. It was a KGB operation to transmit misinformation to foreign intelligence. But the operation was failed and the group was destroyed in 2 stages (part of the group managed to escape from the camp and was then caught using torture).



The autopsy described the kind of injuries, the origin of which the pathologists couldn't explain.

As in at all.

(The person in charge was very experienced as well.)

Plus, of course, we can dismiss what the witnesses were describing in the area one after another, but I'd say it was too much commotion for "elimination of a small group of people" out in the wilderness by some "KGB"

And sure enough too much for the "avalanche" that some are still stubbornly trying to ascribe to this whole event)))
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Old 07-15-2020, 05:04 AM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,236,535 times
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I do not believe in UFO . Balls of fire in the sky could be traces of jet from a R-7 rockets.

For example:

http://s56.radikal.ru/i152/0905/0e/ceb0ab9ad173.jpg
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