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As contrary to John-UK's claims, Finland is internationally very much seen as a Scandinavian country, despite the language issue (that I think most people outside this region are not even aware of), Finland is very much often grouped together with and often even confused with Sweden and Norway.
It is pretty much only Swedes and Norwegians and to some extent Finns who will react when people abroad says something in the lines of "oh I love Scandinavia, been to Finland twice". And while I can admit that many Swedes and Norwegians often ignorantly groups Estonia and the Baltic States with Russia and "Eastern Europe" in general, I have never encountered anyone who talks about Finland in that way.
For the Swedes and Norwegians who does not consider Finland as a part of Scandinavia, they still very much see it as a Nordic country, not eastern European, not Slavic, and certainly not Russian.
I don't want to get into semantics here, but really in continental Europe the Scandinavia/Nordic Countries is so diffuse it doesn't exist. In French and German Scandinavia is also Finland and Iceland. Some Finns are as well very harsh about the 'Scandinavia' label, as they want to see Finland as an unique entity highlighting our cultural specifics. On the other hand, when HJK Helsinki played FC Copenhagen in football the Danish media said "en skandinaviske kamp", and when I visited Amsterdam a person said to me "I should've guessed, you Scandinavians are so adept in English". So it's pretty much a lost cause.
Personally, call us what you want, unless it's Russia or the Baltics.
In my mind I definitely group them all together as "Northern countries" (except for may be Lithuania, because of the history of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth,) because they are all single-noted
As Chuds. Small naive insignificant nations. I get that. But well, when I said earlier that the Finnish name for Sweden came from the Rus, the Karelians kept calling protestant Finns as "Rus" until the 17th century.
There is still a surname in Finland, "Rusi", which stems from this. And many islands named "Russarö" = island of the Rus, or "Jussarö" = island of the Jutes, or "Ryssö" = island of the Russians.
Yes, the language. From that first video I was at first unsure when Russian stopped and Mari started. The tempo of that language sounds to me very Russian, like saying all the words very fast.
There was no Russian there at all. It was all Mari language from the beginning till the end. What I hear though, are borrowed Russian words from time to time ( like "ministerstvo" ( ministry) or "skanirovat'" ( to scan.) The tempo of the language, the melody of it when they speak is greatly influenced by Russian - no doubt about it, but the language itself is totally unfamiliar to me; I wouldn't be able to understand a word of it.
Quote:
Finnish mostly stresses on the first vowel, like erAsure, You, sOund wEird tO mE, and it uses pauses regularly. The Hungarian clip also uses pauses, which sounds much harmonically much more familiar though I can't understand a word.
When aroused, Finns start to speak very fast, but still uses pauses. Like in "etsänytymmärrämitämäsanon... etsänytoikeastivoiollanointyhmä... äh, en en jaksa väitellä. (Whydon'tyouunderstandwhatIsay... youreallycan'tbethatstupid... ah, I don't want to argue.) See the difference in tempo?
I don't know how mutually intelligible these three languages are (they were developing in three unrelated locations as we know) but after all the scientists find them to be similar somehow. I can hear the similarity too, although I am not a scientist)))
I don't want to get into semantics here, but really in continental Europe the Scandinavia/Nordic Countries is so diffuse it doesn't exist. In French and German Scandinavia is also Finland and Iceland. Some Finns are as well very harsh about the 'Scandinavia' label, as they want to see Finland as an unique entity highlighting our cultural specifics. On the other hand, when HJK Helsinki played FC Copenhagen in football the Danish media said "en skandinaviske kamp", and when I visited Amsterdam a person said to me "I should've guessed, you Scandinavians are so adept in English". So it's pretty much a lost cause.
Personally, call us what you want, unless it's Russia or the Baltics.
I honestly felt like I was in a Scandinavian country when I visited Helsinki. It just didn't feel Russian or Baltic at all. The bilingual signs also made it feel more Scandinavian
As Chuds. Small naive insignificant nations. I get that. But well, when I said earlier that the Finnish name for Sweden came from the Rus, the Karelians kept calling protestant Finns as "Rus" until the 17th century.
There is still a surname in Finland, "Rusi", which stems from this. And many islands named "Russarö" = island of the Rus, or "Jussarö" = island of the Jutes, or "Ryssö" = island of the Russians.
"Chud or Chude (Old East Slavic: чудь, in Finnic languages: tshuudi, tšuudi, čuđit) is a term historically applied in the early Russian annals to several Finnic peoples in the area of what is now Estonia, Karelia[1] and Northwestern Russia.[2]
Perhaps the earliest written use of the term 'Chudes' to describe proto-Estonians was ca. 1100, by the monk Nestor, in the earliest Russian chronicles.[3] According to Nestor, Yaroslav I the Wise invaded the country of the Chuds in 1030 and laid the foundations of Yuryev, (the historical Russian name of Tartu, Estonia). Then Chud was used to describe other Baltic Finns called volok which is thought to refer to the Karelians.
According to Old East Slavic chronicles the Chudes were one of the founders of the Rus' state.[3]"
There was no Russian there at all. It was all Mari language from the beginning till the end. What I hear though, are borrowed Russian words from time to time ( like "ministerstvo" ( ministry) or "skanirotat'" ( to scan.) The tempo of the language, the melody of it when they speak is greatly influenced by Russian - no doubt about it, but the language itself is totally unfamiliar to me; I wouldn't be able to understand a word of it.
I don't know how mutually intelligible these three languages are (they were developing in three unrelated locations as we know) but after all the scientists find them to be similar somehow. I can hear the similarity too, although I am not a scientist)))
Oh, that pretty much reinforces my point. Must be the loan words then. And the rhythm of the speech. I can sometimes hear the difference between Russian and Ukrainian, but that Mari was just unfamiliar to me. Hungarian sounds only like czöhöhöfglhflhlgfööööhföhgöhgöözdzdscdc dcdzzdzzszszszm. But with pauses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rams_Lord
I honestly felt like I was in a Scandinavian country when I visited Helsinki. It just didn't feel Russian or Baltic at all. The bilingual signs also made it feel more Scandinavian
I think all people think so who visit. You just have to visit. Like the French anthropologist in the 19th century who thought Finns were Asians and he was surprised not to see anyone like that in Helsinki.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure
"Chud or Chude
I know it, you said it before. But in the St. Pete region where people actually know about Finland, Finns have been called Chuds or Tschuchnas, for primitive village folks who don't bathe, and it's a derogatory word. Like in Finnish 'ryssä', is derogatory despite being the official word for Russians in Indo-European languages. And as I said, the old stereotype here was that Russians don't bathe.
I think all people think so who visit. You just have to visit. Like the French anthropologist in the 19th century who thought Finns were Asians and he was surprised not to see anyone like that in Helsinki.
Are the signs the same in Åbo? Or are the majority written in Finnish only
I know it, you said it before. But in the St. Pete region where people actually know about Finland, Finns have been called Chuds or Tschuchnas, for primitive village folks who don't bathe, and it's a derogatory word. Like in Finnish 'ryssä', is derogatory despite being the official word for Russians in Indo-European languages. And as I said, the old stereotype here was that Russians don't bathe.
I find both derogatory words ironic, if not to say downright hilarious, because these two out of all people brought "bathing" to a whole new level, a kind of art, with two different versions of "banya" and "sauna."
This Mari and Khanty sound like Russian with a special ingredients of E.T. in them + some elemets of Latvian and/or Lithuanian. That's some fu**ed up s**t.
I think no one is denying that Finland is a Nordic country. However, the term "Eastern Europe" is often associated with less developed economies and communism, not just geographical location. If Finland was not as wealthy as right now and had a communist past, I don't see why it wouldn't be labeled as part of eastern Europe, as in reality it is located quite to the east.
Culturally I also don't see how it would qualify as Western. It has almost nothing in common with say France. Many of the western countries have had close historical ties, like the existance of the Roman Empire for example. You can still see their similarities today. Right now Finland might look more Western, but historically speaking it has zero links to what was considered "Western world" in the past.
It may sound like I'm hating on the Finnish users, but I'm really not
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And as I said, the old stereotype here was that Russians don't bathe. 
