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Catalonia has the same ethnicity as Spain does. Speaking a secondary language doesn't make you an ethnicity, yet Spain, France, Italy, Germany, etc have regions with different languages. And? I'm Valencian and I speak a lot of Valencian when i'm outside, yet an overwhelmingly majority of Valencians feel very proud to be a part of Spain. Others not that much and others a bit for political reasons, but the independence feeling here is almost nonexistent. The only pro-independence party in the last Valencian elections were ERC and CUP. ERC (ERPV here) got 0.4% of votes and CUP not even 0.1% ... and we were also a part of the Crown of Aragon and we have our own language lol.
Isn't Valencian vs. Catalan similar to Flemish vs. Dutch? Linguists and many people consider them to be basically the same language. Even if not everyone agrees.
Genetically the Basques are not really different, either. They are a mix of various groups, just like elsewhere. Ethnicity is mostly based on culture, especially language, not on genes. That's why there are black Germans, simply because they are ethnically German, not genetically.
Nor does it matter whether a land used to be a kingdom, a princedom etc.
When it is a land with a different ethnic background, it deserves to be independent, if that is what the majority want. Whether or not that is the case with Catalonia is unknown as there has not been an official referendum, yet. If Madrid is so sure that the majority of Catalans want to stay, why not do an official referendum and settle this issue peacefully once and forever?
I'm sorry but you are very wrong here. Very wrong.
I live from a stone throwing distance from Catalonia. Yet almost all Catalans I know are very proud to be Spaniards, some even more than me. And many of them are 100% Catalans, not grandsons of people which came from other parts of Spain during Franco's era... most of them as well have the Spanish flag in their balconies. Heck, if you visit now any major city of Catalonia, you will see lots of balconies with the Spanish flag.
The majority of Catalans don't support independence because they feel proud to be Spanish. Why Catalonia hasn't got the same autonomy as the Basques? Very easy. Because the Basques are really another ethnicity, were really an independent kingdom in the past (not much years but they were) and their origins are pretty different as well.
Catalonia always had a parallel history with most of the other Spanish regions unless in the Crown of Aragon era where they were as well part of a Spanish speaking kingdom with Spaniards which later united with Spain. And as well other Spanish regions were in the Aragonese Crown. Catalans are NOT an ethnicity and they are mostly genetically identical to any other Spanish region except for the Basques.
Catalonia has the same ethnicity as Spain does. Speaking a secondary language doesn't make you an ethnicity, yet Spain, France, Italy, Germany, etc have regions with different languages. And? I'm Valencian and I speak a lot of Valencian when i'm outside, yet an overwhelmingly majority of Valencians feel very proud to be a part of Spain. Others not that much and others a bit for political reasons, but the independence feeling here is almost nonexistent. The only pro-independence party in the last Valencian elections were ERC and CUP. ERC (ERPV here) got 0.4% of votes and CUP not even 0.1% ... and we were also a part of the Crown of Aragon and we have our own language lol.
"Ethnicity" is such a vague and imprecise concept anyway. I am also cautious when people judge groups by saying they're not different, or a "nation" or a "people".
People should realize that if we were to erase all borders and undertake to redraw them, the vast majority of international boundaries wouldn't end up in the same places they are today.
Would Austria logically be separate from Germany? Would Switzerland still exist?
Of course, this does not mean that entities made up of different groups (or groups that might under this scenario more logically be on the other side of a border) can't work together and build successful countries.
Many of the world's best countries are like this.
But it has to work for everyone reasonably well, and when it doesn't people need to be able to sit down and talk in a civilized way.
Arbitrary borders also cause a lot of conflict in Africa, Nigeria for instance with 180 or so ethnic groups, many of which hate each other.
Even within Germany there is the state of Bavaria, which some Bavarians would like to see separate from Germany, and within Bavaria there is Franconia, which would like to be separate from the rest of Bavaria.
I think once an ethnic group exists, it is almost impossible to ever get rid of it again except for genocide. It will always be around and try to stay or become separate in one way or another.
Well, Flemish is really 98% Dutch. The difference are some mutually intelligible words.
Valencian is 90% similar to Catalan but it has more similarities with Spanish and we say the words just as they have to be said. I mean we say them exactly as you write them, Catalans exaggerate the pronuntiation: For example for Carles Puigdemont they say "Carlas Puijdamón", for Mossos de Esquadra they say "Mossus da Asquadra" for pare (parar, stop) they say "pari" and with this, the vast majority of their vocal pronunciation is strange. There is also a number of words (about 10% i'll say) which are different. But written it's more similar than Portuguese and Gallego languages.
Most Valencians recognise it as an own language for pride, to be linked with our past and history. It has been called Valencian in the last 7-8 centuries so we won't change it today!
Catalonia's independence will be recognized once they suffer through a "Kent State" or "Tienanmen Square" style massacre at the hands of Rajoy's Madrid.
Valencian is Catalan.
Valencian is a language invented by Partido Popular.
As many Valencians are scared of the Catalan peril (their cousins), they do need to differentiate to avoid a fictional assimilation.
People should realize that if we were to erase all borders and undertake to redraw them, the vast majority of international boundaries wouldn't end up in the same places they are today.
For Europe I'd say that they borders wouldn't change much at all. If you exclude Russia.
Ethnic borders would certainly change in Europe as well. For instance, Bavarians would join Austrians, to whom they are much closer ethnically than to people in the rest of Germany.
Belgium as such would probably cease to exist, Switzerland also.
Northern Italy would split from Italy.
The Basques and other regions in Spain might get their own countries.
Etc.
Ethnic borders would certainly change in Europe as well. For instance, Bavarians would join Austrians, to whom they are much closer ethnically than to people in the rest of Germany.
Belgium as such would probably cease to exist, Switzerland also.
Northern Italy would split from Italy.
The Basques and other regions in Spain might get their own countries.
Etc.
Northern Ireland would likely become part of the Republic of Ireland. :yikes:
There might be a Sami country in the northern Nordics.
Some parts of neighbouring countries might join Hungary.
Of course time works against minorities as they progressively integrate and even assimilate with the larger wholes they've been annexed to.
At some point in the past one could have said that Alsace might have made more sense as a part of Germany. Not really any more.
Same goes with the Valle D'Aoste region in NW Italy which has mostly lost its francophone nature.
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