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All I said is that basic english, the core of the langugage is by far constituted by germanic word, which is just logic for a germanic language.
A person uses more than 2000 different words daily, do you really think that these 2000 words are 90% germanic?
Ok, the core word are of Germanic origin, but for me Latin is omnipresent, for example how to translate this simple text without Latin?
Quote:
Joey used his mobilephone to read his short messageservice (SMS) while driving and had a caraccident, his car was taken to a garage for repair. He had to be hospitalized, he underwent variousclinical/medical examinations, magneticresonanceimaging (MRI), the doctor has prescribed him many drugs. To pass the time he watches Television and some series. His insurance called him because the other motoristfiled a complaint. In criminalcourt, the judgesentenced him to 10 years in jail.
The verdict was pronounced by videoconferencing. Joey is now depressed and anxious.
Latin is everywhere, the Germanic influence took place very early in the history but then for centuries it was Latin vocabulary that conquered Europe, and especially English with Normans invasion. Even today Latin is indispensable. How many Germanic word in new technologies? :
Computer, data science, server, programmation, Artificial Intelligence, quantum computer, algorithm, cable, memory, processor, solar panels, batteries, autonomous vehicles, nuclear fusion, Virtual Reality, Augmented Reality, facial recognition, nano technologies, bio technologies, RADAR etc.
I admit that simple sentences can do without Latin, but it is disguising English and distorting it, especially as it continues to evolve. The Germanic influence took place more than 1300 years ago, since a lot of things have happened.
Last edited by Bordeaux33; 04-01-2018 at 03:55 AM..
If there is someone here that have an «*agenda*» it is more likely to be easthome whose goal seems to be trying his best to distord reality to make the UK being as far as possible from everything that might link it to the rest of northern Europe... whatever it is geography, people or germanic language...
Concerning the language he seems to not be able to get the meaning of the word «*core*». The core vocabulary which includes the words that make the base of english, the ones that define english language and the things of basic human life: grammatical words, articles, days, hours, everyday words... The pourcentage might even be more than 95% of germanic origins.
Defining a language by the origin of the total vocabulary used in that language is absurd, because it would includes a majority of word rarely used, thousands of specific words from technical, intellectual or academic vocabulary that the majority of speakers never use and often maybe even never know.
And finally the reasons of trying to defining a language that way is that it is impossible to really be able to count what total number of words really has a language. If we includes all the scientific names for all insects speecies into what one would consider part of english it will give thousands more latin based words that nobody know outside of insect specialists... we could expend the «*total*» vocabulary as much as we would like adding ultra specific fields and its specific vocabulary.
What would be more relevant is to look at what proportion of the vocabulary actually used in a usual speech or text is used. In English, on average 80% of this the vocabulary is of germanic origins in litterature.
WTF are you talking about!!! Why should I give a sh*t? The fact is the UK is FAR more connected to the Anglo world than it is with ANY of Europe! I have supplied a pie chart showing the origins of English (from 3 different sources) its perfectly clear, you on the other hand just spout stuff without ANY links. And now suddenly I am now on some sort of anti European quest too! Don't be so bloody ridiculous! The UK has as much in common with France, Spain or Germany ie very little. I suggest the French shares more culture with Germany than the UK does.
Location: Near Tours, France about 47°10'N 0°25'E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bordeaux33
A person uses more than 2000 different words daily, do you really think that these 2000 words are 90% germanic?
Ok, the core word are of Germanic origin, but for me Latin is omnipresent, for example how to translate this simple text without Latin?
Latin is everywhere, the Germanic influence took place very early in the history but then for centuries it was Latin vocabulary that conquered Europe, and especially English with Normans invasion. Even today Latin is indispensable. How many Germanic word in new technologies? :
Computer, data science, server, programmation, Artificial Intelligence, quantum computer, algorithm, cable, memory, processor, solar panels, batteries, autonomous vehicles, nuclear fusion, Virtual Reality, Augmented Reality, facial recognition, nano technologies, bio technologies, RADAR etc.
I admit that simple sentences can do without Latin, but it is disguising English and distorting it, especially as it continues to evolve. The Germanic influence took place more than 1300 years ago, since a lot of things have happened.
One again nobody said latin was present in germanic language sich as English wich, we all know this, is a germanic language that borrowed a lot of words. That is not the question we are arguing about.
A text in german or dutch about these subjects will have lots of latin too.
Location: Near Tours, France about 47°10'N 0°25'E
2,825 posts, read 5,266,801 times
Reputation: 1957
Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome
WTF are you talking about!!! Why should I give a sh*t? The fact is the UK is FAR more connected to the Anglo world than it is with ANY of Europe!
Thats is not the question. Nobody denies that here. But «*Anglo*» culture doesn’t come from nowhere... it comes from north-western Europe, from the north sea area. so it share cultural and linguistic links with other countries from this area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome
I have supplied a pie chart showing the origins of English (from 3 different sources) its perfectly clear, you on the other hand just spout stuff without ANY links.
Once again I’m repeating, we do not speak about the same thing. I never contest the charts you give, which talk about the roots of the total words that are in a dictionary. I just said I think it is not releveant to be able to claim that English is made mostly of latin/french words. «*English*» is not just a list of words. All depends how these words are used. And the most used words are largely germanic in their roots. This is the bulk, the heart of your language (if you can’t understand what means the latinate «*core*»). It is anglo-saxon, even if you do not like this reality.
You like pies it seems... I give you again this one I posted in the past, that you maybe didn’t bother to whatch or try to understand if you can.
Even in the medical sample, in which latin-based and greek words are over-represented, anglo-saxon words are still the majority. The various samples of written english give anglo-saxon words between 51%(medical) and 84%(dickens), (without including words from other germanic roots such as old norse).
The discussion here has seemed to evolve into a largely linguistics debate (and has apparently also become a somewhat private conversation). Be that as it may, language is a prime builder of "national character" and therefore the linguistics are at the heart of the question to what extent England and Germany are similar.
That being the case, you can point to a technical historical feature in dissecting the linguistics. And it's a factor that surprisingly nobody has yet mentioned.
The High German Consonant Shift.
It's the thing that gave rise to that old saying "English is just mis-pronounced German".
In any event, given modern communications and cross-pollination of languages and social media and youth culture, all of this is really out of date.
Are we not now basically the same people. Especially in today's world.
English soldiers in WWI wrote home about how like them the German soldiers were.
As the OP observed, England was immigrated by Angles and Saxons after Rome left. The Britons, who had asked the Anglo and Saxons to protect them from the Picts and Celts, were driven into Wales after they reneged on the agreement they made with them.
England is the modern rendition of Englaland. But it almost was extinguished by the Danes. England almost became Daneland. It was only through Alfred the Great, a Saxon king of Wessex, that the Danes were repelled and England eventually formed. He is the only King of England with whom the appellation "Great" has ever been used.
Not all Danes were driven out. Many were absorbed in Saxon population.
The Normans (who are also of Danish descent) left marks on the English language but no so much on the population. The Norman Invasion was more a replacement of Saxon nobility with their Norman counterparts. By contrast, the Danish invasions were geared to resettling England with Danish people.
English soldiers in WWI wrote home about how like them the German soldiers were.
As the OP observed, England was immigrated by Angles and Saxons after Rome left. The Britons, who had asked the Anglo and Saxons to protect them from the Picts and Celts, were driven into Wales after they reneged on the agreement they made with them.
England is the modern rendition of Englaland. But it almost was extinguished by the Danes. England almost became Daneland. It was only through Alfred the Great, a Saxon king of Wessex, that the Danes were repelled and England eventually formed. He is the only King of England with whom the appellation "Great" has ever been used.
Not all Danes were driven out. Many were absorbed in Saxon population.
The Normans (who are also of Danish descent) left marks on the English language but no so much on the population. The Norman Invasion was more a replacement of Saxon nobility with their Norman counterparts. By contrast, the Danish invasions were geared to resettling England with Danish people.
If you think that 21st Century UK is populated by 'Anglo-Saxons' then I really don't know what to say! Have you heard about the Harrying of the North?
No. But I looked it up. It says William replaced the Danish-Saxon nobility in northern England with Normans, killing a lot of people along the way.
Which agrees with what I said about the Normans being a transplanted nobility, not migrated population.
I didn't say 21st Century UK. I said England. The other parts of Great Britain are inhabited by various Celtish descendants. The OP used England also, not the UK.
No. But I looked it up. It says William replaced the Danish-Saxon nobility in northern England with Normans, killing a lot of people along the way.
Which agrees with what I said about the Normans being a transplanted nobility, not migrated population.
I didn't say 21st Century UK. I said England. The other parts of Great Britain are inhabited by various Celtish descendants. The OP used England also, not the UK.
Killing 'a lot' of people on the way! It was genocide!! So where did these (many thousands) of Normans go? Anybody that thinks that 21st Century England is full of Anglo-Saxons and Scotland and Wales are full of Celts really has no idea what they are saying!!
Aren't the Scots Celts? Same for the Welsh, aka Britons? I'm sure other people have intermingled over the years, sure. But Scotland recently voted on independence and that tells me there still a strong presence of Scots there.
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