Being shooed away from Flagstaff Az. (Phoenix, Prescott: homes, construction, high school)

[ZonyPony]

Originally Posted by Arizona1

That's a new one on me. I mean the very idea that any retiree from anywhere would pick a frigid place to retire. Usually it's further down south here.

There are many Arizonans who have lived most if not all of their lives in the hotter parts of the state. When they retire, many choose to live in a different climate, which the higher elevations of Arizona provide, such as Flagstaff.

Or... others choose to do the "snowbird" thing right here in Arizona, moving back and forth between cooler and warmer as needed.

Why? Because they can!

[kdog]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

I'd "shoo" retirees away too. We have too many freakin' people in this state, particularly the rural areas. Flagstaff, Sedona, Prescott, Pinetop - all are overrun with people from some other state with no affinity for the place whatsoever. You made your life somewhere else, so spend what's left of it there! Or move to Phoenix. It's already a cesspool of humanity and more people are not going to make it much worse. Leave this state and what is left of its beauty to those who have lived here, worked here, paid taxes here, and once upon a time had the dream of retiring to the nice places in their HOME state.

Wow, burn the bridges, folks! Ponderosa's got his!!

[poolgirl51]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

I'd "shoo" retirees away too. We have too many freakin' people in this state, particularly the rural areas. Flagstaff, Sedona, Prescott, Pinetop - all are overrun with people from some other state with no affinity for the place whatsoever. You made your life somewhere else, so spend what's left of it there! Or move to Phoenix. It's already a cesspool of humanity and more people are not going to make it much worse. Leave this state and what is left of its beauty to those who have lived here, worked here, paid taxes here, and once upon a time had the dream of retiring to the nice places in their HOME state.

Well shoot, I retired here and absolutely love it here. It is my new home state. I pay taxes, volunteer and contribute to nonprofits when I can. All in my community. I feel like, even though I was not born here, I am a good citizen and advocate for the state and Sedona. We are a mobile culture and it is rare these days to stay in place. I grew up in Florida but did not want to retire there. I worked in many other states and did not want to retire in any of those as well. I am sad that my presence here upsets you. I usually like your posts.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by poolgirl51

Well shoot, I retired here and absolutely love it here. It is my new home state. I pay taxes, volunteer and contribute to nonprofits when I can. All in my community. I feel like, even though I was not born here, I am a good citizen and advocate for the state and Sedona. We are a mobile culture and it is rare these days to stay in place. I grew up in Florida but did not want to retire there. I worked in many other states and did not want to retire in any of those as well. I am sad that my presence here upsets you. I usually like your posts.

I'm not upset at your presence. I do believe that there is a limit to what the state can handle in terms of immigration and we have exceeded it and the quality of life has suffered. We can differ, I guess, but it is my unwavering opinion that Sedona has been all but ruined by growth. Prescott is not far behind. I could go on about encroachment on forests and range land, destruction of wildlife habitat, polluting the air and water, commercialization of every corner, destruction of vistas, drawing down aquifers, crowding of public recreation, ever higher taxes and fees to support growth. So I would shoo away more people. Everyone who comes here puts more burden on the land. I think enough is enough and we should figure out how to live in this state without constant immigration and the construction industry that encourages it and thrives from it. There's a limit. We're there - No Vacancy.

[poolgirl51]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

I'm not upset at your presence. I do believe that there is a limit to what the state can handle in terms of immigration and we have exceeded it and the quality of life has suffered. We can differ, I guess, but it is my unwavering opinion that Sedona has been all but ruined by growth. Prescott is not far behind. I could go on about encroachment on forests and range land, destruction of wildlife habitat, polluting the air and water, commercialization of every corner, destruction of vistas, drawing down aquifers, crowding of public recreation, ever higher taxes and fees to support growth. So I would shoo away more people. Everyone who comes here puts more burden on the land. I think enough is enough and we should figure out how to live in this state without constant immigration and the construction industry that encourages it and thrives from it. There's a limit. We're there - No Vacancy.

Well I will admit you make some good points (the water issue in particular) but I am not sure what the answer is. I moved to Sedona two years ago so I did not witness it's transition to what it is today. As I said in my earlier post we love it here. We bought an existing home in an established neighborhood (no new construction for us). The economy has brought a lot of the new development to a stop and hopefully we will get our National Scenic Area designation eliminating the future risk of any more National Forest land swaps. I will have to admit that I was surprised to learn that the State of Arizona does not legally limit development based on the availability of water. Amazing for a desert state.

I am guessing that Arizona was a wonderful place to grow up. Were you raised in the Phoenix area?

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by poolgirl51

Well I will admit you make some good points (the water issue in particular) but I am not sure what the answer is. I moved to Sedona two years ago so I did not witness it's transition to what it is today. As I said in my earlier post we love it here. We bought an existing home in an established neighborhood (no new construction for us). The economy has brought a lot of the new development to a stop and hopefully we will get our National Scenic Area designation eliminating the future risk of any more National Forest land swaps. I will have to admit that I was surprised to learn that the State of Arizona does not legally limit development based on the availability of water. Amazing for a desert state.

I am guessing that Arizona was a wonderful place to grow up. Were you raised in the Phoenix area?

No I am a transplant myself. I was sent here (to Ft. Huachuca) by the Army in 1971. I was a very young fellow then. I stayed after I was discharged, went to UofA and ASU and have never left except on work assignments that took me out of state for various amounts of time. So while not a native, my entire adult life is AZ. I call it home. And growth has been good to me. I made my living off of it. I was a shill of the big time land developers . But, I think our economy is too dependent on growth as an industry and the growth we need to keep the money coming in is not sustainable. Anyway...

[kdog]

99% of the state of Arizona is completely uninhabited. Citing Sedona as an example of anything is ludicrous, because Sedona is one of the wonders of the world. It's perfect, like Maui, Carmel, the San Diego shore, or any of the few other places in the world that are deemed so desirable that people flock there like ants on a cookie until it's paved over and ruined. Sedona is a lost cause. However, Sedona ain't Arizona, and neither is Phoenix. You could probably have every retired person in the country move to Arizona and there'd be more than enough room for them. What's wrong with making an economy on retired people? I say bring 'em on.

[kdog]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

No I am a transplant myself. I was sent here (to Ft. Huachuca) by the Army in 1971. I was a very young fellow then. I stayed after I was discharged, went to UofA and ASU and have never left except on work assignments that took me out of state for various amounts of time. So while not a native, my entire adult life is AZ. I call it home. And growth has been good to me. I made my living off of it. I was a shill of the big time land developers . But, I think our economy is too dependent on growth as an industry and the growth we need to keep the money coming in is not sustainable. Anyway...

Ok, so you're not a native, but you feel that you've been here long enough so that it's OK for you to retire here. Since you're setting the guidelines, perhaps you could be so kind as to enlighten us how many years a person has to work in Arizona in order to retire here?

[OnryOne]

Hey Ponderosa, I'm moving out in Oct from Ohio. Can I pitch a tent in your back yard?

[CCCVDUR]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

I'm not upset at your presence. I do believe that there is a limit to what the state can handle in terms of immigration and we have exceeded it and the quality of life has suffered. We can differ, I guess, but it is my unwavering opinion that Sedona has been all but ruined by growth. Prescott is not far behind. I could go on about encroachment on forests and range land, destruction of wildlife habitat, polluting the air and water, commercialization of every corner, destruction of vistas, drawing down aquifers, crowding of public recreation, ever higher taxes and fees to support growth. So I would shoo away more people. Everyone who comes here puts more burden on the land. I think enough is enough and we should figure out how to live in this state without constant immigration and the construction industry that encourages it and thrives from it. There's a limit. We're there - No Vacancy.

Incredible! Fun to read this thread! Passionate, well written, and I'll rep you. You know, this sounds like a Dan Frazier / Lisa Rayner thread on the Arizona Daily Sun web site. Incredible how many Socialist* Environmentalist types there are in Flag (versus Liberal* Environmentalists you might find in California).

Blocking growth has some serious negative consequences as outlined below.

First, in a Liberal Progressive Democracy, people should have the freedom to move wherever they want to.

Truth be told, everyone wants to move to Flag.

So when growth is stalled in an area with a high quality of life, new homes and businesses don't get built.

Result = unemployment always remains high, since the demand for jobs is greater than the available jobs.

Until small towns understand this basic economic fact (Flagstaff, South Lake Tahoe, Prescott, Sedona, Boulder, Durango, Eugene, Bend, Santa Fe, NM, Albuquerque, NM, Santa Cruz, etc.), they will continue to have high unemployment, homeless, crime, poverty, and meth.

Think about it. In a town like Flagstaff with millions of acres of timber, mining, and pasture, along with a very highly educated population w/ 40% having a bachelors or higher, is there ANY excuse for homeless?

None. There are plenty of resources to feed and shelter everyone. The unemployment rate in a small town should be 1%.

Having visited most of these towns, I have yet to find any exceptions to high unemployment, UNDER-employment, low wages, and few opportunities for promotion.

I know the Durango and Flagstaff "Smart Growth" people will disagree here.

However, as a Liberal, I would ask these Smart Growth Socialist Social Engineers (SGSSES) how they can watch people working 2 or 3 jobs with no benefits, just to pay run down apartments for $1,000 a month...

*Please refer to the distinction of Liberal and Socialist at this address:
http://talkradiousa.tripod.com/talkradiohosts/index.blog/1890946/thom-hartmann/ (broken link)