[JLFCPA]

Ok....I'm gonna try to be brief yet provide enough info to generate feedback.

Me and my wife are 44 and 41. I'm white, my wife is Puerto Rican. We have 2 boys, 11 and 4. We were born and raised in the Bronx, and we have lived in Westchester County for the last 16 years. We currently own and live in a ranch house on a 1/4 acre in Briarcliff Manor - a village of approx. 8,000+ residents located about 45 minutes north of Manhattan (we spend next to no time in the city). It has a nationally ranked school district and is ridiculously safe and quaint. I'm a partner in a small CPA firm located 15 minutes south. About 4-5 days a month I visit with clients all over the NYC area. My wife's a stay-at-home mom. So, what's the problem, right? Well.....we're tired of the weather. I can't stand the winters. We basically spend 5 months a year indoors. We're thinking seriously of moving.

We've been vacationing in Florida almost every year for the last 10-15 years or so. We have family in Oviedo (wife's sister, brother in law + 3 kids), Port St. Lucie (wife's parents) and Delray Beach (my parents). It has sort of become our home away from home 2 weeks a year. We love it down there. It just puts a smile on my face to be there. I love how it looks, the palm trees, the flora the fauna, the ocean water, the intercoastal.

Anyway...I've been reading alot of the Florida boards lately and I can't believe the amount of negativity I read about Florida. All this stuff about people leaving in droves to TN, NC GA and the like. Truth is, it's starting to scare me a little. Is it really that bad??? As you can tell, we have it pretty good up here, and we'd be giving up alot to make the move.......yet we are still very attracted to the idea...it pulls at us. We think we might love it.

Our focus used to be the South (Boca, Coral Springs, Wellington) but lately it's shifted to the Central/Orlando area. Specifically Lake Mary and Winter Springs. We're hoping for what everyone hopes for - good schools and a safe environment for our kids. We'd like to have little or no mortgage, so our price point is about $450k, if that's relevant.

Fears-

1) Potentially substandard schools and that district reallocating thing - WTF!
2) General safety/crime issues
3) Property values declining - are they bottomed out yet????
4) Hurricanes
5) Too hot in the summer???
6) No good Italian or Chinese or Mexican food (semi-joking) :-)
7) Racial insensitivity?? We are a mixed couple after all and I don't know if there is still alot of bigotry in these areas - I did get called a "race traitor" at a Taco Bell in PSL many years ago, so you never know. (How funny is that anyway - a couple of white supremacists eating Taco Bell)

I'm hoping to establish or purchase an existing accounting practice and I have about a 5 year window to get that off the ground - any Florida CPA's out there that can chime in on that possibility??

Best case scenario - I end up earning about 1/2 what I do up here, however, my cost-of-living is substantially less. I'll take that in trade for the weather.

So.........are we crazy for wanting to do this? Has any of you found yourself in a similar position? Can we be content in Florida?.......any and all comments/advice/info is welcome.

[RMD3819]

I have little in common with your situation but I'll offer some general observations.

I know little about central Florida as I have never lived there. I have lived in Naples (20 years) and a few years each in Tampa and Boca but that was long ago.

First I'll comment on employment. You are in a better position than most. You have a professional degree and your career is somewhat portable. I have no idea what the job market for CPAs is like but my guess is the salary structure is lower than you are used to. That is true for most jobs in Florida. I know a lawyer who can't get enough work because there are so many lawyers. He spends a few days a week at the office and his other days as a lifeguard-and he is not some kid just out of school.

Housing-You will be able to find a decent house in a good neighborhood for $450K in most areas of Florida.

Onto your fears-

Schools-Florida schools in general have a poor reputation. I would research very, very thorughly. There are a variety of reasons, some of which are the tourist and retirement based economy. These groups don't have kids in schools here so this is not a priority and the political climate reflects this. The other issue are the high numbers of illegals.

Safety-Depends on where you are. This is true everywhere. There are tons of safe communities in Florida.

Property values-Declining but I have no idea how far they will go. I would not hesitate to buy now if I was ready to move.

Hurricaines-You have to prepare for them and heed evacuation orders. They are a huge disruption especially if it actually hits. If you are going to worry instead of prepare then don't move to Florida.

Heat-You are in Florida and it is hot in Florida in the summer. It has been that way since time began. This is an individual thing. Some love it, others hate it. Personally I can't stand the heat and humidity. My dislike seems to have gotten worse as I get older.

Food-All the populated areas will have a wide variety of choices.

Racism-I doubt it. Both coasts and the Orlando area have a large hispanic population. Hispanic/white couples are common.

If you look at enough negative posts here you will see a pattern. Someone will be sick of the winter weather. They visit Florida in the winter for a week or two and are mesmerized by the palm trees and weather. They pack up and move without a job and with little cash. Then they learn that housing is outrageous (although declining now) and they can't get a job that pays more than $10/hour. In order to survive they must work two or three jobs and maybe live in a less than desirable neighborhood. It's called the sunshine tax.

I think the lower cost of living is somewhat of a myth. It depends on what you are used to. Generally taxes seem to be less in Florida but you make that up in other ways: generally lower wages, higher homeowners insurance, higher property costs, higher electric (running the A/C year round) etc.

I don't think you are crazy for wanting to move. I would think long and hard about moving just because of the weather in NY. You seem to have a good lifestyle and I would wonder if you could duplicate that here.

[JLFCPA]

RMD3819

Thank you for the thorough and well thought out response. It was very informative.

We're trying to be as brutally honest with ourselves with regard to the pluses and minuses such a move might reveal. This includes being aware of intangibles as well as the hard numbers. If we do it, our eyes will be wide the whole time....that way the "sunshine tax" will be an expectation rather than a surprise.

Thanks again.

Specifically as to the cost of living - the trade off is housing costs that right now include mortage/prop tax/insurance/utilities/upkeep/landscaping and amount annually to about $45,000.............

changed to approximately $12k - $15k annually with no mortgage.

Sound possible?

[Junker1079]

I'm with you............or was! I moved to Tampa area 5 years ago from Toronto CANADA, then from Indiana and Virginia. I too had vacationed here for many years......both coasts and central Florida. You sound like me.....I got so excited by the palm trees, the sunshine, the beaches, the flora....and most expecially the WEATHER!
If you are thinking of spending anywhere in the range of $450K, you most certainly will find a nice home in a great neighborhood. As for schools - Florida is not NY! The school system is not as good, however, some parts of Tampa Bay do not have a large retirement community as in Naples and other places.
I live in Brandon (just on the east side of Tampa, about 45 minutes drive to the door of Disney), where the average age is 37! The only place you will find a retired community of any size is either in Sun City - south of Tampa, or perhaps in St. Pete Beach - right on the beach...........otherwise, it's definately a place where people come to live and work and raise a family....not a retirement community!
I am a Realtor here in the Tampa area and can tell you that you should expect to pay in the range of $8000 a year for property taxes on a $400K house. If you choose to spend less on a home.........say $300,000 range, your taxes will most likely be under $6000 a year.
Home owners insurance should cost you in the range of $2.5 to 3.5 thousand, again depending on where, size, age etc. I live in a 20 year old home, about 2400 sf - 4 bedrooms, 2 baths, 2 car garage, + pool and only pay about $2000. The value of my home now would be in the $275,000 range.
I have a large lot - 1/3 acre filled with flora (meaning lots of upkeep), and I pay $150 month to a gardner to take care of it. I pay $70/month to have my pool serviced each week, $60/month for water (though I have a septic tank, so my bills don't include sewer), and an average of $200/month in electricity for heating and cooling.
It is hot here in the summer............but I always think it's like winter up north...........you could freeze your tails off up there for months, or, get a little warm here for a few months in the summer.........at least you don't shovel or have to dress from head to toe, and we are all thankful for A/C

If you are thinking $12 to $15/year with no mortgage, I don't see a problem, and you might even have money left over to have some fun!!!!!

I hope this helps and if I can be of help, let me know

Originally Posted by JLFCPA

RMD3819

Thank you for the thorough and well thought out response. It was very informative.

We're trying to be as brutally honest with ourselves with regard to the pluses and minuses such a move might reveal. This includes being aware of intangibles as well as the hard numbers. If we do it, our eyes will be wide the whole time....that way the "sunshine tax" will be an expectation rather than a surprise.

Thanks again.

Specifically as to the cost of living - the trade off is housing costs that right now include mortage/prop tax/insurance/utilities/upkeep/landscaping and amount annually to about $45,000.............

changed to approximately $12k - $15k annually with no mortgage.

Sound possible?

[Floridabrit]

I probably shouldn't respond to your post because I'm one of the people that want out of Florida but I'm going to anyway. You mention and I quote, "Well.....we're tired of the weather. I can't stand the winters. We basically spend 5 months a year indoors. We're thinking seriously of moving." I could say the exact same thing about Florida only it would be about the summers. Summers are long and hot, hot, hot, they are spent going from one air conditioned building to another. I personally feel like a prisoner inside here for about five months give or take, so I'm going to take my chances up north.
On a positive side we have lived in Winter Springs for eight years, in a safe neighborhood, very close to A-rated schools.

[JLFCPA]

Junker1079:

Thanks for the post. It helps. The property taxes I've seen quoted on houses in the $350k to $450k range in Lake Mary were ranging from $3000 to $5000 annually. That sounds about right, yes?

Floridabrit: Well...I appreciate all input. It took me 25 years to get tired enough of NY winters to reach this point. If I can tolerate Florida summers anywhere near as long, I'll consider it a move worth making. With regard to heat vs. cold, the ability to jump into a pool as an alternate to A/C is a welcome alternative when compared to just bundling up or being in a heated environment. Less clothing is always more appealing than more. And until you've thrown out the garbage at night when it's 11 degrees outside and the wind chill is below 0, you haven't experienced real discomfort. Walking outside at night to toss the trash and it's 75 degrees.....sounds pretty good.

[RMD3819]

Originally Posted by JLFCPA

RMD3819

Thank you for the thorough and well thought out response. It was very informative.

We're trying to be as brutally honest with ourselves with regard to the pluses and minuses such a move might reveal. This includes being aware of intangibles as well as the hard numbers. If we do it, our eyes will be wide the whole time....that way the "sunshine tax" will be an expectation rather than a surprise.

Thanks again.

Specifically as to the cost of living - the trade off is housing costs that right now include mortage/prop tax/insurance/utilities/upkeep/landscaping and amount annually to about $45,000.............

changed to approximately $12k - $15k annually with no mortgage.

Sound possible?

Let's do the math.....

My house- 2500 Sq ft under air. Market value $600K, taxable assessment $284 K
Taxes-$3480
Insurance-$4300
Cable/Internet-$1200
Landline phone-$600
Electric-$4800
Water/Sewer-None. I'm on well/septic.
Home owners association fees-None.
Cell phone-None. I am issued one by my work.

That adds up to $13780 annually not including my mortgage. That is in your range but remember you may have some of those last three expenses that I don't have.

[JLFCPA]

Originally Posted by RMD3819

Let's do the math.....

My house- 2500 Sq ft under air. Market value $600K, taxable assessment $284 K
Taxes-$3480
Insurance-$4300
Cable/Internet-$1200
Landline phone-$600
Electric-$4800
Water/Sewer-None. I'm on well/septic.
Home owners association fees-None.
Cell phone-None. I am issued one by my work.

That adds up to $13780 annually not including my mortgage. That is in your range but remember you may have some of those last three expenses that I don't have.

I wasn't counting my phone/internet/cable cost in my equation, as I figured they would be the same as up North, but I was counting landscaping/pool costs, which you did not list. It's shocking how high the insurance is. Currently my property taxes are $14000 (2/3 of which are school taxes) and my homeowners insurance is about $900. I guess that says it all when comparing school districts, lol. I do see HOA fees listed on alot of the properties I see online they usually run from $200 to $400 I assume monthly. What do you get for that HOA money? I'm also surprised at your overall electricity costs. They seem quite high compared to discussions with my sis-in-law and father-in-law. Does it vary greatly county to county?

[Junker1079]

wow, first day on the site and the post.........I guess i haven't got it right yet since my post was deleted...........
check with a local professional in the area to find out about taxes. Most real estate people will be happy to help


AND remember, in Florida, the taxes you see on a listing ARE not what you will pay.

We have 'save our homes' and homestead credits that make a difference and establish a new base for the buyer when a home is sold

[JLFCPA]

Originally Posted by Junker1079

wow, first day on the site and the post.........I guess i haven't got it right yet since my post was deleted...........
check with a local professional in the area to find out about taxes. Most real estate people will be happy to help


AND remember, in Florida, the taxes you see on a listing ARE not what you will pay.

We have 'save our homes' and homestead credits that make a difference and establish a new base for the buyer when a home is sold

I've actually been lurking around the site for a few days. Didn't register until I decided to post something.

Anyway, you make an interesting point. Is it usually possible to ascertain what the taxes will be, in advance of purchasing the house?