Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I like his website, and he's got a lot of good advice.
But he annoys me a little. He acts like it's all common sense, but he is also quite fortunate to be smart and trained as an engineer with a very good career straight out of college, marrying young with a wife who was also making good $$, skilled enough to be able to renovate his homes himself and not have had any major medical issues/divorces/caregiving issues to disrupt the security and stability in his family.
He certainly is smart and he didn't do anything to earn a high IQ. But as he said on his blog at one point (and I'll paraphrase) "I retired 10 years ago yet my peers of the same income and education levels are still working and not anywhere near financially independent", etc. He has a point. Very few people, even of the same smarts and income levels, did what he did--but they could pretty easily if they made different choices instead of just going along with the standard upper middle class social programming. And he has already said his blog is aimed basically at the top 1/2 of income earners, not the bottom half.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfcambridge
It annoys me when he calls himself retired, when in fact he is a blogger/speaker/writer, who also is a landlord who renovates properties etc... So I agree that he isn't retired, he just changed careers.
I think people get too caught up in semantics and miss the point--which is that most people could make different choices in their lives that would create a lot more flexibility and freedom for themselves. Instead they make choices that create a lot of stress--which leads to many of the divorces you alluded to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfcambridge
But what really annoys me is when he complains about how much he has to pay to get health insurance for his small, healthy family. He is a multi-millionaire and he complains about having to pay full price for health insurance (no longer qualifies for a subsidy because his visible income is too high). He is exactly the type of person who should be paying full price. He "retired" in his 30's and is a millionaire.
If you have the link to that I would like to see it.
However, if he did say that, he is right in the sense that pretty much everyone agrees health care in America is the biggest rip off ever. Between America's horribly unhealthy lifestyles and the greedy health care industry, we have the unhealthiest population in the rich world and the highest health care costs. It's easy to say other people should pay the full bill for health care when you're getting a subsidy. The larger point is that our system should cost at least 50% less than it does. The system is horribly inefficient--yet Americans are just totally blind to this inefficiency. We think having 68% of the population being overweight and 33% being obese is normal. Then we wonder why health care is so expensive and want subsidies from the government. I think if more people were paying the full bill like Mr. Money Mustache is, I think more people would demand more accountability from themselves and the health care system.
I am 99.99% certain Mr. Money Mustache was not into eating unhealthy food of any kind. In fact, people love to say that eating healthy is expensive, but I think that's mostly BS. When people cut out the soda, junk food, & processed foods, & eating out, most will have plenty of money to eat healthy. As I always say, beans are cheap, bananas are cheap, oatmeal is cheap. And you can eat meat, but cutting back not only saves money but is generally better for your health. It's all about meal planning and frugal shopping.
lol, I read that thing. 1.00 dollar a day per person? Once again. thanks but no thanks. I guess for me as I said, it's a balance. Yes beans are cheap, beans every day for 7 days a week? hummm thanks but no thanks.
Now lol the banana thing made me chuckle. I work for a large chemical company, we make the Nitrous Oxide derivative that is sprayed on most American bananas to get them to market and to keep them looking nice and yellow. I got into a bit of an argument one year with a women in a Jersey supermarket who was blaming the price of bananas on a certain President. I pointed out how we got bananas in Jersey in the middle of winter looking all nice, fully developed and yellow.
anyhoo like anything I do think it involves choice and what we define Frugal as. I plan my meals pretty well, a lot better when the kids where younger as we made sure we ate together as a family.
Frugal for me is getting the most bang for my buck while still enjoying my life. Am I going to eat beans every day to keep my food budget under 1 dollar a day per person. Shopping at Costco or BJ's for me would actually waste money. I'm at most two people (my son's are in and out all the time now developing their own lives).
lol, there is only so much one can freeze. I tried the fancy fries. they sucked.
In generally I'm just not into "extremes" on either end.
He certainly is smart and he didn't do anything to earn a high IQ. But as he said on his blog at one point (and I'll paraphrase) "I retired 10 years ago yet my peers of the same income and education levels are still working and not anywhere near financially independent", etc. He has a point. Very few people, even of the same smarts and income levels, did what he did--but they could pretty easily if they made different choices instead of just going along with the standard upper middle class social programming. And he has already said his blog is aimed basically at the top 1/2 of income earners, not the bottom half.
I think people get too caught up in semantics and miss the point--which is that most people could make different choices in their lives that would create a lot more flexibility and freedom for themselves. Instead they make choices that create a lot of stress--which leads to many of the divorces you alluded to.
If you have the link to that I would like to see it.
However, if he did say that, he is right in the sense that pretty much everyone agrees health care in America is the biggest rip off ever. Between America's horribly unhealthy lifestyles and the greedy health care industry, we have the unhealthiest population in the rich world and the highest health care costs. It's easy to say other people should pay the full bill for health care when you're getting a subsidy. The larger point is that our system should cost at least 50% less than it does. The system is horribly inefficient--yet Americans are just totally blind to this inefficiency. We think having 68% of the population being overweight and 33% being obese is normal. Then we wonder why health care is so expensive and want subsidies from the government. I think if more people were paying the full bill like Mr. Money Mustache is, I think more people would demand more accountability from themselves and the health care system.
Sure, I said he had good advice. Of course he made some good decisions, but all of the points I made were accurate.
Yes, our health care system is a mess right now, and will only get worse in the near future. But one of Mr MM blind spots has been insurance in general, and he tends to favor being underinsured. This is very risky, and demonstrates to me how naive (and fortunate....) he has been in life. If his wife was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis tomorrow, he might change his mind.. If one of his son's friends was helping in one of his construction projects and accidentally fell....... he might change his mind.
Anyway, he actually got a lot of push back when posters were calling him out when he would complain that he couldn't buy cheaper (worse coverage) health insurance, and he had no shame in accepting a subsidy when he was quite wealthy and retired, but his generous assets were more "hidden". As those probably know on this board, you can be rich and qualify for a health insurance subsidy if your taxable income is low enough, regardless of how much in assets you have (and kind hide). I definitely think MMM should be paying full price, as I do.
MMM no longer has discussions about health insurance on his board because it got heated (critical), and now he deletes the posts that point out these issues. The posts he allows under his regularly posted "articles"/discussions are very heavily moderated/selected, which is his right. He openly stated he would do this about the health insurance critiques because he didn't want to address them anymore. Shrug.
As I said, I like what he has to say and he has a lot of good points. I have learned a lot from him, and recommend him regularly to others. Just pointing out the things that have bothered me over time, and probably are the reasons why I don't read him anymore.
I had to laugh when I read your allusion to the causes of divorce....
Those of us who have the most luck in life, are usually the least able to see it. And certainly they tend to believe they deserve it. Just a general observation.
As an aside - for many of us, pleasure/happiness is not the only reason we work. We continue in high power jobs because they are intellectually stimulating, we enjoy our colleagues, our jobs make a difference and our goals for our daily life include more traditional work. And we are incredibly fortunate if we have such jobs. But in general, Americans value things/status way too much and waste a ton of $$ when they could/should be saving more. But I see the point of saving more for security and for the rainy day and the unknowns about our future (job insecurity / lay off, illness/disability/long term care needs, family support, assist with college costs for our children), rather than for the luxury of retiring in our 30's.
Because remember of course, MMM is not really retired. He is making MOST of his retirement savings now, in his second career.
Last edited by sfcambridge; 06-22-2018 at 09:17 AM..
Mr. MoneyMustache shows how important it is to be resourceful, which results in more options. Of course, having more money increases options but so does having a different mindset. Figuring out what brings value and letting go of the things that don't opens new doors.
For example, our friends live comfortable lives. They are motivated by bigger houses, new sports cars for all the kids and so on, so they continue working long hours. They rarely like discussing their job.
A bigger house does not motivate us. It won't push us to develop skills to make more money. However, having more time will motivate us. Developing good relationships also motivates us to do better. We have a small house but our friends understand that we are not being cheap or frugal, just prioritizing what brings value to us. Now that I have developed more skills in my field,options have opened up for me to show what I have learned. I will only buy a bigger house if it fits into my lifestyle which I am slowly piecing together now that I have more time and spare money to spend.
Sometimes with blogs, if you are wondering why many people are getting something out of it and you are not, you have to think bigger why the lifestyle worked for the blogger. Of course, only if you want to spend your free time thinking about stuff like that.
nope , i am not in to much of what goes on in that website . i stopped contributing many years ago .
not the lifestyle i want .
You always have good things to say on the Retirement Forum, MJ, so I'm curious what you dislike now about MMM? You have lots of dough like he does, so what annoys you?
I read all his posts over a few days, and he said he IS paying full price for health insurance now, but its still "only" 7 grand a year, so not as much as some are paying. He is self-insured on his house.
He eats very healthy too, as we do. It's the processed, packaged "convenient" foods that are spendy. We don't get those. He loads up at Costco.
Eliza, he uses a washing machine, just not a dryer. For many years we didn't either (solar and dry climate) but have to now. And I'm very sorry what happened to your husband! I hate those kinds of stories.
The bike thing is kind of annoying. I get his point, but have lived in several places---none of which were conducive to biking, but it sure would save a lot of money. Cars really eat up the income....
Another annoying thing was that he is mocking of "exotic" vacations and acting like he never took any, then later on dismissively said they had "jetted around Italy" and other places before the son was born. Where was that in his yearly budget??
And most don't have the DIY talent that he does, or the drive to keep busy every second of the day....
I just discovered his website and though it's "too late" for me, since I'm already retired, I do enjoy his suggestions for frugal living. If I had invested over 50% of my past earnings, I'd certainly be set. But no, we had to buy the sports car, airplane,vacations....
But anyway, now in retirement we have already adopted much of his advice: no cars (we have great local and long-distance buses), rarely restaurants, no TV, cheap groceries, cheap entertainment. Of course we retired to a low COL also. We need a dryer and a/c though, due to the humidity. But very conservative on everything else---LED lights and power strips. We used to be on off-the-grid solar, so are used to conserving.
Do you follow his advice, and if so, how? Any of you who are younger, are you socking away 50% of your income so you too can retire early?
I think part of his success with his blog is that he is so entertaining....financial stuff bores me to death nor do I really understand it....
buying that airplane must have really set you back but it was probably awesome
I read all his posts over a few days, and he said he IS paying full price for health insurance now, but its still "only" 7 grand a year, so not as much as some are paying. He is self-insured on his house.
That's incredibly cheap for a family of 3. I pay that for the cheapest Bronze plan in my area for just myself, and I am a healthy woman in my 40's, plus I have a high deductible over $6000 with huge out of pocket max. He is getting a bargain relatively.
But it is crazy, relatively. People who have good insurance through work, don't realize what's it like now for others.
You always have good things to say on the Retirement Forum, MJ, so I'm curious what you dislike now about MMM? You have lots of dough like he does, so what annoys you?
I read all his posts over a few days, and he said he IS paying full price for health insurance now, but its still "only" 7 grand a year, so not as much as some are paying. He is self-insured on his house.
He eats very healthy too, as we do. It's the processed, packaged "convenient" foods that are spendy. We don't get those. He loads up at Costco.
Eliza, he uses a washing machine, just not a dryer. For many years we didn't either (solar and dry climate) but have to now. And I'm very sorry what happened to your husband! I hate those kinds of stories.
The bike thing is kind of annoying. I get his point, but have lived in several places---none of which were conducive to biking, but it sure would save a lot of money. Cars really eat up the income....
Another annoying thing was that he is mocking of "exotic" vacations and acting like he never took any, then later on dismissively said they had "jetted around Italy" and other places before the son was born. Where was that in his yearly budget??
And most don't have the DIY talent that he does, or the drive to keep busy every second of the day....
Generally the way I look at any blog, not just MMM is that I remember they are simply one persons small view of the world. Unfortunately what has happened with a lot of them ( MM, Dave Ramsey etc) is that their followings become big and they start to sound more obnoxious IMO.
The second thing I remind myself is that "frugality" is very very fluid. I use to load up at warehouse stores also when I had 3 kids and a husband at home. Now, they would literally be a waste of money, I'm a single almost empty nester. that's the thing I dislike about them. Dave Ramsey's advice about not buying a house until you can pay cash. Seriously??? things like that.
Lastly, as I mentioned personal experience does play a part on how you think, if someone grew up in serious poverty that effects them. between 2013 and 2016 I lost my hubby, baby brother and good friend to cancer. all of them before retirement age. That has shaped how I think about my handling my finances.
Also I remind myself that doing one thing does not equate to being a non saver or not frugal. lol my sister in law is really into designer handbags. loves louie Vuitton. Now that women can squeeze a dollar until it runs screaming down the block. she says her frugality in other areas allows her to buy an occasional bag but if the MM crowd were to hear that, of course they go on and on about her and how she could save 50 million dollars by not buying something.
So with all the information out there, one has to take it and apply it to their individual lives.
You always have good things to say on the Retirement Forum, MJ, so I'm curious what you dislike now about MMM? You have lots of dough like he does, so what annoys you?
I read all his posts over a few days, and he said he IS paying full price for health insurance now, but its still "only" 7 grand a year, so not as much as some are paying. He is self-insured on his house.
He eats very healthy too, as we do. It's the processed, packaged "convenient" foods that are spendy. We don't get those. He loads up at Costco.
Eliza, he uses a washing machine, just not a dryer. For many years we didn't either (solar and dry climate) but have to now. And I'm very sorry what happened to your husband! I hate those kinds of stories.
The bike thing is kind of annoying. I get his point, but have lived in several places---none of which were conducive to biking, but it sure would save a lot of money. Cars really eat up the income....
Another annoying thing was that he is mocking of "exotic" vacations and acting like he never took any, then later on dismissively said they had "jetted around Italy" and other places before the son was born. Where was that in his yearly budget??
And most don't have the DIY talent that he does, or the drive to keep busy every second of the day....
i find many posters on the forum are basically going to be living a pipe dream and are either so underfunded or just have a bad plan because they lack the knowledge to know how to plan .
i just find i have no interest in the lifestyles of either him or most of the posters
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
