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The point being that the reaction of your husband is unusual. Admit that there were until recently, very real consequences for a white person admitting to black ancestry, all negative, and all due to adverse reactions from other whites.
I'm white, and currently investigating a very real possibility of black ancestors, which has only recently come to my attention. When my daughter was very young, I was often asked if she was part black, because of her super curly hair. I always said she wasn't, because I knew her curls came from her blonde/blue eyed father. I suppose some people would say I "denied" our (possible) black heritage, but it's from MY family, not her father's, and not something we even suspected 20 years ago. I don't think it's possible to "deny" something you know nothing about.
Now, my family is looking forward to getting answers. My lily-white, blonde haired, blue eyed daughter, like Kathryn's husband, thinks it would be cool, and even a little humorous, if she had to convince people she were part black.
The only adverse reactions I would be worried about would be from black people who may feel we aren't "black enough" to claim it. To some degree, I think they would have a valid point. I would have no problem at all saying I have black ancestors, but I would look like an idiot if I tried to say, "Hey, I'm black! "
"Hidden" African ancestry must come of course from ancestors a good number of generations back. Most whites from the big immigration period of the late 19 century and early 20th century settled in northern or western states and had very little contact with blacks (the Great Migration didn't occur until they were already here). The South saw very little immigration, so the population was pretty static. Even there the poor and middle class whites rarely interacted with blacks. Pre-Civil War they were on plantations and post Civil War Jim Crow segregation was very effective in keep the races apart. African-Americans do frequently have European ancestry (about 15-20% on average), but that was almost always a result of mixing while the population was enslaved. The white population of the South has very little hidden African blood. The 3-5% of European-Americans 23andMe states who test for African ancestry is small enough to be chalked up to testing inaccuracy and among those most have less than 1% of their genes African. Again, that's low enough to be testing inaccuracy (especially given how early genetic testing frequently showed anomalies like that - a half dozen tests would give a half dozen results).
Its not that I'm in denial, it just the European-American population as a whole is very homogeneous thanks to American racial attitudes and segregation (either by law or convention). The more likely race they might be a fractional amount would be Native American, but I've read that even its grossly overstated by most white family mythology. A prime example is Johnny Cash. His southern family always claimed they were a substantial amount Cherokee, but when he looked into his ancestry it was discovered he was nothing but Scots-Irish (check his Wikipedia article). Just because one has dark hair and eyes doesn't necesarily mean they're Indian.
I just sent off a sample to the Geno 2.0 Project that National Geographic is doing. I should get the results most likely in December. It'll be interesting to see what our background is according to that test. My family is white and from the South, but regardless I'll be pleased to find out any African/Indian/Neanderthal blood we have in us. Its all good!
I know a lady who is half Lebanese and half Scottish/British, she claims that her results said she was 12% Black African, a mix of East African on her Middle Eastern father's side and West African Slaves on her mother's side. She looks like a tan white girl.
I know a lady who is half Lebanese and half Scottish/British, she claims that her results said she was 12% Black African, a mix of East African on her Middle Eastern father's side and West African Slaves on her mother's side. She looks like a tan white girl.
DNA can tell a lot, but there is no way for it to identify that an ancestor was a slave.
First of all everyone has African ancestry as that's where the human species originated. That being said, tests like 23andMe state they're testing from about 500 years or ago, before people began spreading across the globe.
The reality is that most white Americans just don't have any recent African ancestry. Many black Americans do because of the way some "owners" behaved with their slaves. But most whites didn't own slaves and many didn't come into contact with blacks, if they lived in areas where blacks hadn't settled yet.
Actually, this is not entirely true. If you take a Black person who is say 70% Black and about 30% white, if they have a kid with a white person, the kid comes out much lighter. Should that kid have a child with a white person, you have a pretty much outright white person.
That person could marry a white person and not even mention his or her family history. So people often don't know much about their family histories. Also, things are not Black and White. Oprah dna tested 0 percent white, but 8% Native American and 3% East Asian. I'm mostly of African descent, but the various European ethnicities in me are 19%, and I am 1% Indian/Pakistani.
The reality is you don't know what's in your family tree until you do the actual research and that includes DNA testing.
"Hidden" African ancestry must come of course from ancestors a good number of generations back. Most whites from the big immigration period of the late 19 century and early 20th century settled in northern or western states and had very little contact with blacks (the Great Migration didn't occur until they were already here). The South saw very little immigration, so the population was pretty static. Even there the poor and middle class whites rarely interacted with blacks. Pre-Civil War they were on plantations and post Civil War Jim Crow segregation was very effective in keep the races apart. African-Americans do frequently have European ancestry (about 15-20% on average), but that was almost always a result of mixing while the population was enslaved. The white population of the South has very little hidden African blood. The 3-5% of European-Americans 23andMe states who test for African ancestry is small enough to be chalked up to testing inaccuracy and among those most have less than 1% of their genes African. Again, that's low enough to be testing inaccuracy (especially given how early genetic testing frequently showed anomalies like that - a half dozen tests would give a half dozen results).
Its not that I'm in denial, it just the European-American population as a whole is very homogeneous thanks to American racial attitudes and segregation (either by law or convention). The more likely race they might be a fractional amount would be Native American, but I've read that even its grossly overstated by most white family mythology. A prime example is Johnny Cash. His southern family always claimed they were a substantial amount Cherokee, but when he looked into his ancestry it was discovered he was nothing but Scots-Irish (check his Wikipedia article). Just because one has dark hair and eyes doesn't necesarily mean they're Indian.
I just sent off a sample to the Geno 2.0 Project that National Geographic is doing. I should get the results most likely in December. It'll be interesting to see what our background is according to that test. My family is white and from the South, but regardless I'll be pleased to find out any African/Indian/Neanderthal blood we have in us. Its all good!
Its not true that the South saw no immigration. The South was never a homogenous groups of whites. First it was in French and Spanish hands. Then British hands. In places like Birmingham, AL and New Orleans, Louisiana I have met Jews, Italians, etc. The South did indeed have Eastern and Southern Europeans.
Here's my ethnic mix.
I am 27% Benin/Togo, 18% Nigeria, 11% Mali, 10% African Southeastern Bantu, 10% Cameroon, 4% Senegel, and 1% from Ghana, about 1% Indian/Pakistani, 6% British, 3% Eastern European, 3% Spanish, 2% Western European, 2% Northern Russian, 1% Italian, 1% Scandinavian, and 1% Irish.
My cousins, both Black and Whites who I've traced to common ancestors and who have also taken genetic testing, all have a diversity of European ethnicities in them.
As far as the South goes, there were always some people from South who moved to the MidWest or the North, especially for things like education. If you meet the super wealthy people in the South (corporate execs, children of politicians, etc) many of them go to Ivy Leagues in the Northeast, and this has been going on for awhile. Other white Southerners have gone to the North for other reasons. Or a certain number of Northerners have gone South for business opportunities for at least a century. So there are all sorts on going opportunities for various genes (including African) to spread through the White population.
There was tons of slavery in the North. Have you ever heard of slave rebellions in NYC? The Northern states had plenty of slaves.
And there was lots of mixing in the USA.
Good point, New York outlawed slavery in the early 1800s. Yes, all the Northern states had slavery. You had slaves in greater numbers of the South due to plantation crops like cotton or sugarcane in some areas. But still, the North has a decent number of slaves.
Barack Obama looks mixed race to me. I'd be able to tell he was more than 1/2 white.
What I find funny is that people like Daddy Yankee or Rosie Perez are often not regarded as black even though they could be Obama's siblings.
Where people are born or come from influences how people percieves ones looks.
I speculate that had Obama been born and/or raised in Puerto Rico or any Spanish speaking country they would not necessarily regard him as black in the USA.
For example Colin Powell was born and raised to Jamaican parents, yet people label him black, but then if Colin Powell had a twin or look alike from Cuba which is like less than boat ride or island hop or swim away from Jamaica, the Cuban of the same phenotype would not be regarded as black in the USA.
It shows how race and perceptions and politics is hypocritical.
That's because people are using Black as a political designation/label. As people are using "Black" on this thread, its has to do with someone who has Southern roots, whatever those are.
I lived in NYC for quite some time. I used to get Africans asking me what my specific ethnic group was in African, and others told me I looked like a Fulani (they live in Mali and Northern Nigeria). I kind of thought I might have at least some Yoruba (found in Benin/Togo, and Southwest Nigeria) because of various connections to the African based religions in my background. A lot of Dominicans, Colombians, and Brazilians would assume I was one of them, and I was often told by light skinned Puerto Ricans I looked like members of their family.
So I had the dna test done. There's a lot of Benin/Togo in me, and also a lot of Nigeria and Mali (so I definitely have both Yoruba and Fulani heritage, among other ethnic groups there). I do have some European ancestry, including some Spanish. So my Puerto Rican and Dominican friends who said we were brothers, yes, I am genetically not different from them (many of them have African ancestors from Benin/Togo and Nigeria, and obviously Spanish ancestry).
I'm white, and currently investigating a very real possibility of black ancestors, which has only recently come to my attention. When my daughter was very young, I was often asked if she was part black, because of her super curly hair. I always said she wasn't, because I knew her curls came from her blonde/blue eyed father. I suppose some people would say I "denied" our (possible) black heritage, but it's from MY family, not her father's, and not something we even suspected 20 years ago. I don't think it's possible to "deny" something you know nothing about.
Now, my family is looking forward to getting answers. My lily-white, blonde haired, blue eyed daughter, like Kathryn's husband, thinks it would be cool, and even a little humorous, if she had to convince people she were part black.
The only adverse reactions I would be worried about would be from black people who may feel we aren't "black enough" to claim it. To some degree, I think they would have a valid point. I would have no problem at all saying I have black ancestors, but I would look like an idiot if I tried to say, "Hey, I'm black! "
Yes, considering when they do the dna tests, they don't classify anything as Black. The dna is broken down into various African and various European, Asian, or whatever ethnic groups. So if it shows up in your dna genetically you'd be whatever percentage African, but that doesn't make you Black.
I found out that I'm 1% Indian/Pakistani. That doesn't mean I would all of a sudden declare myself to be just South Asian to the exclusion of 99% of what I am genetically. I'd look like an idiot. But if said it in the context of naming out all the ethnic groups in me, I'm just naming out what I am genetically. If you have Black ancestry, its a part of you, NOT the TOTALITY of YOU!
Indeed there was heavy miscegenation among Irish women and black men, both in early Virginia, and again in cities like NYC in the 18th and 19th centuries.
Which is why I find so many whites feelinbg "sure" that they do not have any African ancestry to be amusing. Given that such black ancestry came from people who were passing, clearly they would not know one way or the other. Though whites with black ancestry is way less common than blacks with white ancestry, it is not unusual.
In fact as recently as 1982 when I was in gard school some of the black told me about a girl who was "passing". She will be in her late 50s now, so this is not as old a concept as some might think. I saw the girl and asked some one if she was the one. I got a laugh in response, and the person asked how I knew. Clearly blacks are often more adept at deducing mixed ancestry than whites are. Indeed part of the reason why this girl would have kept away from blacks is to reduce the likelihood of her cover being blown.
It may not even be less common. The US changed demographically,and you've had huge numbers of Latin immigrants. Lynda Carter, who used to be Wonder Woman, had a mother of Mexican descent. Mexicans are mostly white and native, but dna tests are finding African dna among them (the Spanish brought African slaves to Mexico and there are still small populations of outright Black Mexicans). So depending on WHERE the whites moved to the US from, they could already have African DNA in them. Ditto for Middle Eastern immigrants. And Southern Europe is quite close to North Africa.
Interesting family history, but where do you get the claim that "most European family trees in the US start after 1840?" I ask because all the way down the line on my dad's side, on both his mother's and father's families, they can be traced back to the 1600s in what is now the US. Some came over as early as the 1640s. Most settled in the mid-Atlantic region and those family trees are very well documented and very far reaching.
Of course many European families came over after 1840 as well, but vast numbers came before then as well.
And unless you come from a long line of inbred people, its hard to claim your family is all from one place . Of the whites who moved here during the industrial age, LARGE numbers of them would have married whites who were ALREADY here. Plenty of people could and do have one side of the family who just arrived in the US, while another side has been here for centuries.
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