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I never claimed Ireland was ever, at any time, a Spanish territory.
I did say, that some towns in Ireland have Spanish names and some of the buildings have Spanish style architecture. It's very credible that Spanish people migrated to Ireland.
There has been no large scale immigration of Spanish to Irish that would influence Irish genetics. I've never heard of any credible Spanish migration to Ireland and as I've said there is no Spanish style architecture or Spanish names in Ireland. Ireland was controlled by Britain for centuries. Britain and Spain were not allies but enemies so why would Britain allow any Spanish immigration into Ireland?
Can you name some of these towns in Ireland that have Spanish names? The reason is that I know none of them. I'm not trying to be argumentative in any discussions here but just trying to dispel some inaccuracies. It is much better to know the facts and be informed instead of being misled.
Over a decade ago Stephen Oppenheimer (who isn't a geneticist) wrote a book called The Origins of the British. He claimed that Britain (& Ireland) was repopulated after the Ice Age with R1b (which is y-dna) from the Basque region. His sole reason for this was the large amount of R1b in both places. Of course R1b is the most prevalent ydna all over the western part of Europe and uses logic this would mean that all R1b populations in Europe are Basque descended. Even at that time autosomal dna did not support this a link. Not long after this book was published there was already disagreement that R1b in the Irish and R1b in the Basque had any particular link. With genetics moving along at an extremely fast pace there has been enormous changes in the last decade. It is now known that R1b wasn't even in Europe during the last Ice Age. R1b is only relatively young in Europe and is now known to have come to Europe from the Steppes in the Bronze Age. Of course Oppenheimer wasn't even aware that there are different subclades of R1b that are majority in certain regions (majority subclade in Ireland is different than in the Spanish and Basque). Now people are still banging on about this study and the supposed connection with the Basque to the British and Insular Celts. This is the only study that this connection was made and it is now known to be completely inaccurate.
There is no point people stating inaccuracies. What is the purpose of that? It is just leading people up the garden path.
I hope people understand. Of course if people prefer to believe certain inaccuracies instead of facts go ahead. It reminds me of all the people thinking they have Amerindian ancestry when in the majority of cases they don't.
Here is some more recent genetic articles. What is also interesting is that Irish are very Steppe shifted and the Basque and Sardinians the least. As I've pointed out numerous times they are not close populations.
People might be interested in watching this segment of the Late Late Show on RTE. Ancestry has done the dna tests of 5 Irish people. They touch a bit on the Armada at the end.
People might be interested in watching this segment of the Late Late Show on RTE. Ancestry has done the dna tests of 5 Irish people. They touch a bit on the Armada at the end.
The Armada myth was taught in my American History class thirty years ago. We were the told the Scotch Irish with dark hair were part Italian.
A lot of myths. The Armada was a fact just not all the mythology about the sailors finding a save haven and going on to create the so called "Black Irish".
I've found that people appear to think that depending on someone's hair colour they can attribute some different origin to them. If people were to think about this logically you can have children in one family with all different hair and eye colour yet they will all have the same genetics.
Dark hair is genetically dominant and blond and red recessive. Two dark haired parents can have blond and redheaded children. All populations have people with different colouring and now with genetics some of these myths can be throw in the bin.
And even though I know better, supposedly, I was on the northern coast of England last week, in a small old fashioned non touristy fishing village across a narrow bay from South Wales, and noticed a group of men at the bar. Apparently they were locals with the local accent, all chatting and interacting.
Most had ordinary brown or reddish blond hair, yet some had very black hair, so black it had nearly blue highlights. They had dark skin and didn't look like you would imagine the typical genetically British but didn't look like members of the usual "Asian" Pakistani or Arabian population either. They all came in together and left together so it that's another reason that they appeared to be locals. Made me think of this thread. I have never seen that before in any part of the UK (not that I have spent a lot of time in every part and have hardly ever been to Wales)--just saying that it was noticeable and did make me wonder.
Seeing people who look so different that they stand out, makes it plausible that people would come up with some reason or myth that they came from somewhere else originally. I can understand why people would wonder.
My grandparents are Italians and Spanish and my Y-DNA is Irish (R1b1b2a1a2f*). This is weird.
L21 isn't Irish although it is numerous there it didn't originate in Ireland. Many Europeans have L21 that have no Irish ancestry. L21 would have branched off P312 somewhere along the Rhine River systems. Many L21 people are in France for example. L21 has many branchings underneath it and some would be more easily placed in Ireland and Britain but they are far down the L21 tree. Even if someone is M222 for example they couldn't say that they definitely are Irish as this is also in Scotland and England but it does help in narrowing things down more than just knowing you are L21.
I think I've explained this before in this thread.
You can see here the proportion of the different subclades.
Relative proportions to each other (not as % of total male pop.) of U106 (red), L21 (blue), DF27 (yellow) and U152 (green).
Not sure how completely accurate the breakdown is but it does give an idea of how wide the 4 main subclades of R1b are spread.
And even though I know better, supposedly, I was on the northern coast of England last week, in a small old fashioned non touristy fishing village across a narrow bay from South Wales, and noticed a group of men at the bar. Apparently they were locals with the local accent, all chatting and interacting.
Most had ordinary brown or reddish blond hair, yet some had very black hair, so black it had nearly blue highlights. They had dark skin and didn't look like you would imagine the typical genetically British but didn't look like members of the usual "Asian" Pakistani or Arabian population either. They all came in together and left together so it that's another reason that they appeared to be locals. Made me think of this thread. I have never seen that before in any part of the UK (not that I have spent a lot of time in every part and have hardly ever been to Wales)--just saying that it was noticeable and did make me wonder.
Seeing people who look so different that they stand out, makes it plausible that people would come up with some reason or myth that they came from somewhere else originally. I can understand why people would wonder.
Yes I think that if someone is slightly different than the norm people want to give them some more exotic origin. There are so many myths around about why people might look a certain way. If anyone has been on the 23andMe boards it is so common for people to think that a great grandmother was Native American because they had dark hair and high cheekbones and yet they get no NA and they are baffled.
The Welsh are a bit more of an enigma to me as far as genetics as I've never seen many results from them. The PoBI is an interesting read in regards to the different regions of the UK.
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