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Such a controversy. My goodness.
When I stopped into the LDS family genealogy center, a really nice lady helped me with my tree. And no, I am not LDS.
She also told me that LDS PAYS millions to Ancestry and others to get these records from them. I don't see how volunteering for them hurts anyone. Silly posts guys.
Such a controversy. My goodness.
When I stopped into the LDS family genealogy center, a really nice lady helped me with my tree. And no, I am not LDS.
She also told me that LDS PAYS millions to Ancestry and others to get these records from them. I don't see how volunteering for them hurts anyone. Silly posts guys.
I never said it would "hurt" anyone. I just said "think carefully" about it. Because they do have a religious motive -- called "temple work for the dead" -- which has always bothered me. It arrogantly disrespects other people's beliefs and I don't want to feed into it by volunteering.
"It smacks,” Rabbi Waldoks said, “of a certain sense of proselytism: If you can’t get them while they’re alive, you’ll get them while they’re dead."
By definition if you are volunteering your efforts they are getting value from it, which you can put a monetary value on. They are keeping all the money they could be paying people.
You mean they're somehow keeping the money they're actually losing by digitizing, hosting, and providing all this for free?
You're grasping at straws.
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If you want to help do their work for them, be my guest. Are you a member of LDS? I'm not.
Nope. I never have been and never will be a member of any organized religion. I just accept the fact that this organization, whether I agree with their religious beliefs or not, is providing a plethora of genealogy records for free to the general public, which benefits millions of people who have no association with their church whatsoever. Still not sure why you have such a problem with that
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Because they do have a religious motive
They may have a religious motive for researching their OWN personal ancestries - but that doesn't mean they have to make all their collections available for free to the general public too. Yet they do. At a financial loss to themselves. And what's more, they have Family History Centers with staff who help people research their ancestry (whether they are LDS members or not) for free, and they make it a point to NOT bring up religion at all in the Family History Center. You'd be foolish to not take advantage of everything they provide for free, with no agenda behind it whatsoever. But hey, whatever, it's no skin off my back if you want to cut off your nose to spite your face. Good luck with your research, especially if you're refusing to make use of what is literally the biggest free genealogy records database on the internet.
I don't understand what the controversy is to begin with, lol. "How dare they make money off of the work I'm doing for free! Oh wait, they don't make money off of it? How dare they lose money off of the work I'm doing for free! Oh wait, that doesn't make any sense... um... how dare they not pay me for this work, even though they're not making any money off it and millions of genealogists will benefit from it? Oh wait, I've just found something else to criticize them for that has nothing to do with the topic at hand...."
Doesn't DAR charge an annual membership fee though?
Well, I was being sorta snarky about the "controversy" part of it, but the typed word doesn't convey that very well, sorry.
Yes, the DAR does. It's also a lineage-based service society that houses one of the best genealogy libraries in the US. Gotta pay for that prime real estate somehow, eh?
They may have a religious motive for researching their OWN personal ancestries - but that doesn't mean they have to make all their collections available for free to the general public too. Yet they do. At a financial loss to themselves. And what's more, they have Family History Centers with staff who help people research their ancestry (whether they are LDS members or not) for free, and they make it a point to NOT bring up religion at all in the Family History Center. You'd be foolish to not take advantage of everything they provide for free, with no agenda behind it whatsoever. But hey, whatever, it's no skin off my back if you want to cut off your nose to spite your face. Good luck with your research, especially if you're refusing to make use of what is literally the biggest free genealogy records database on the internet.
Feeling a bit saucy today, are we?
Seeing as they are public records to begin with, they should be providing access for free. Whether they are under any obligation to do so I don't know.
You bring up their "financial loss" again, but certainly their "loss" is less when they use volunteers instead of paying people. I have done many indexing projects (unrelated to genealogy) for which I was decently paid, so when I hear of "volunteer indexing" I get worried. They can afford to pay qualified indexers and offer a very good index, or they can save the money and use volunteers, and end up with something not quite as good. But hey it's "free" -- and you get what you pay for.
And I do use FamilySearch, and often wonder why I can't find a certain record which I know is there, but it doesn't come up. My beef isn't with using it, it's with giving them free labor. I'm one of those weirdos who thinks people should be paid to do work.
It seems like the work isn't indexing exactly, but transcribing handwritten documents. Still, that is a skill that needs to be learned to be done properly and IMO it is worth it to train people and pay them to do it to get a better product.
By definition if you are volunteering your efforts they are getting value from it, which you can put a monetary value on. They are keeping all the money they could be paying people.
If you want to help do their work for them, be my guest. Are you a member of LDS? I'm not.
Just wanted to note that I am not an LDS member either. I actually am not religious and am a humanist.
Everyone in the world gets a benefit from us indexing records, which is a good thing. Nothing wrong with doing something without always thinking of getting some sort of compensation. Those who volunteer for any good deed/work usually do so because their work will benefit someone else or another group in some way. Not to get mad and want to get paid after the fact.
By definition if you are volunteering your efforts they are getting value from it, which you can put a monetary value on. They are keeping all the money they could be paying people.
If you want to help do their work for them, be my guest. Are you a member of LDS? I'm not.
They are an INVALUABLE FREE resource.
I have used their FREE resources MANY MANY times.
Why NOT help them index more data so that others may also benefit from the FREE resource.
TONS of information on that sight that STILL isn't searchable, simply because it hasn't been properly indexed.
Seeing as they are public records to begin with, they should be providing access for free. Whether they are under any obligation to do so I don't know.
You bring up their "financial loss" again, but certainly their "loss" is less when they use volunteers instead of paying people. I have done many indexing projects (unrelated to genealogy) for which I was decently paid, so when I hear of "volunteer indexing" I get worried. They can afford to pay qualified indexers and offer a very good index, or they can save the money and use volunteers, and end up with something not quite as good. But hey it's "free" -- and you get what you pay for.
And I do use FamilySearch, and often wonder why I can't find a certain record which I know is there, but it doesn't come up. My beef isn't with using it, it's with giving them free labor. I'm one of those weirdos who thinks people should be paid to do work.
It seems like the work isn't indexing exactly, but transcribing handwritten documents. Still, that is a skill that needs to be learned to be done properly and IMO it is worth it to train people and pay them to do it to get a better product.
Point 1 - They ARE FREE. You may drive up to whichever state you want to research and scroll through tons of records, many times on microfiche and find all the information for free OR you could sit in the luxury of your home and simply type in some information and search through those results which is infinitely easier and more convenient.
Point 2 - Very likely your results do not come up because they have not yet been indexed.
Seeing as they are public records to begin with, they should be providing access for free. Whether they are under any obligation to do so I don't know.
Um, no. Public records don't equal free. Public just means they are accessible to anyone. Even if you order the records from their original source/holding (courthouse, archives, etc), there is usually a fee involved. No one is under any obligation to provide any records for free. FamilySearch do so purely out of generosity because they get nothing back in return for it.
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You bring up their "financial loss" again, but certainly their "loss" is less when they use volunteers instead of paying people.
It's still a loss though, and why would you want them to provide this for an even greater loss? Don't get me wrong, LDS have a lot of money, which is why they are able to provide this for free (which they don't have to do) - but expecting them to pay us for indexing and creating an even greatly loss for themselves, what are you trying to do? Bankrupt them? Great, then they won't be able to provide anything at all. This is the most ridiculous argument I've ever had, lol.
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I have done many indexing projects (unrelated to genealogy) for which I was decently paid, so when I hear of "volunteer indexing" I get worried.
I've worked with animals for pay before, but that doesn't stop me from volunteering at the humane society. Since when is volunteering a bad thing?
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And I do use FamilySearch, and often wonder why I can't find a certain record which I know is there, but it doesn't come up.
That can happen with any search engine.
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My beef isn't with using it,
Then why bring up the fact that they use genealogy to perform ordinances for their dead ancestors? If you take that much issue with their fundamental practices that you won't support them by indexing for free, you shouldn't be supporting them in any way at all.
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it's with giving them free labor. I'm one of those weirdos who thinks people should be paid to do work.
Well, there's this thing called wanting to give back to the community, especially one that provides so much for free to begin with. I'm sorry that you are incapable of understanding this concept of generosity, but if you're unwilling to help the genealogy community (or any other community for that matter), I certainly hope you don't expect to receive any help in return. I guess you won't be joining the Random Acts of Genealogical Kindness organization any time soon.
Well, there's this thing called wanting to give back to the community, especially one that provides so much for free to begin with. I'm sorry that you are incapable of understanding this concept of generosity, but if you're unwilling to help the genealogy community (or any other community for that matter), I certainly hope you don't expect to receive any help in return. I guess you won't be joining the Random Acts of Genealogical Kindness organization any time soon.
Oh please, spare me. I have spent countless hours helping people with genetic genealogy and finding family for adoptees over the last several years. I am happy to help individuals for no fee but I will not give free help to organizations that are filthy rich. FamilyTreeDNA asked me if they could use my success story that I posted in their forum and make a DNA training webinar out of it. It was a webinar to demonstrate how DNA can be used successfully in genealogy, many of their audience not (yet) FTDNA customers. I asked what they would give me in return, since clearly they were offering the webinars to attract new customers. They said they would offer me nothing. I refused.
I have no problem with volunteering, my problem with volunteers who don't do as good a job and who don't have the skills as people who are properly trained to do it. No matter how well-meaning volunteers are, they can really wreck a database if they don't know what they're doing. You only get one chance to do this indexing, and if it's not done right the first time it will never be done properly and many records will become permanently inaccessible. So why are you so against FS investing the time and money to have it done right? That's what doesn't make sense to me. Absurd to suggest it would "bankrupt" them!
But go ahead and knock yourself out volunteering. I'm not telling anyone not to do it. I'm only providing a different perspective and giving a few reasons why people should think twice before doing it. Most people seem incapable of understanding anything except the word "FREE".
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