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I have a hard time calling Oklahoma "midwestern." It, along with much of Texas, have more of a western South/lower Plains vibe, IMO.
Have you ever been to Tulsa? I would say Tulsa is a mixture of South and Midwest. Definitely not entirely Southern. Tulsa is more similar to cities like Des Moines or Kansas City, than Birmingham or Atlanta, IMO
Tulsa's very similar to Dallas, Fort Worth, OKC and Austin. It's "Western South." Nothing like the Midwest. Kansas City's on the southern edge of the Midwest, anyway, so it already has some Southern influence.
I have a hard time calling Missouri a "Midwestern" state, even though the Census bureau includes it. Even though it does have some obviously Midwestern areas (St. Louis, KC, the northern third of the state), most of the state has a Southern/Ozark culture and climate. It's heavily Southern Baptist, it tends to vote Republican (sometimes very Republican), there is a detectable Southern accent throughout much of the state. MO was a slave state, and it had a strong Confederate contingent during the Civil War. Although MO has Southern and Midwestern influences, I'd say overall, it's a Southern state. Hannibal, MO may be Midwestern, but Sikeston, MO certainly isn't. There's nothing Midwest about this:
Tulsa's very similar to Dallas, Fort Worth, OKC and Austin. It's "Western South." Nothing like the Midwest. Kansas City's on the southern edge of the Midwest, anyway, so it already has some Southern influence.
I have a hard time calling Missouri a "Midwestern" state, even though the Census bureau includes it. Even though it does have some obviously Midwestern areas (St. Louis, KC, the northern third of the state), most of the state has a Southern/Ozark culture and climate. It's heavily Southern Baptist, it tends to vote Republican (sometimes very Republican), there is a detectable Southern accent throughout much of the state. MO was a slave state, and it had a strong Confederate contingent during the Civil War. Although MO has Southern and Midwestern influences, I'd say overall, it's a Southern state. Hannibal, MO may be Midwestern, but Sikeston, MO certainly isn't. There's nothing Midwest about this:
Have you ever been to Tulsa? I would say Tulsa is a mixture of South and Midwest. Definitely not entirely Southern. Tulsa is more similar to cities like Des Moines or Kansas City, than Birmingham or Atlanta, IMO
I have been to both Tulsa and Oklahoma City. The laid-back vibe, accents, spread-out nature, and scenery certainly seemed like western South/lower Plains to me.
Also, I tend to see the Great Plains as its own region distinct from the Northwest Territory states of Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio--which is how I define the Midwest.
Out of curiosity, why do you not include the northern plains states (i.e, Kansas, Nebraska and the Dakotas)? Just asking. I know most in those states self-identify with the Midwest...
So far as the debatable states go, I would think it quite a stretch as to that any of them are truly debateable...save that, because they border the Midwest, there might be fringe areas along said border which have some characteristics of the same. Of course, this is just my opinion, but Pennsylvania's history and culture seems solidy part of the NE, while Kentucky and W. Virginia are linked primarily to the South. I would say the state which is most truly debateable is Missouri.
Remisc, it looks to me that you are associating "Midwest" with the Great Lake states, which is not necessarily the same thing. For instance, someone from Iowa might draw a "Midwest" map which includes Missouri and the Plains states and leaves out Ohio or Michigan.
Also, leave Pennsylvania alone! The Northeast is small enough even before taking PA from us. Take territory from the Western states if you need it, they are bloated land barons, lol.
Sorry, the entire map was colored green and red originally, I just whited-out everything else, and made my idea of the midwest, green, and the other three the red, I must have missed Long island.
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