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Old 12-23-2010, 12:13 AM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
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This puzzles me because most of the American regions are classified based on their history. If Vermont is New England, couldn't you argue Upstate NY is too? Or has Vermont always shared a lot in common with CT, MA, and NH even when it was part of New York?
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Old 12-23-2010, 12:29 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis
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Vermont was claimed by both New York and New Hampshire. New York had the more legitimate claim but because of the way it's colonial society was organized it never settled it (New York was a semi-feudal society back then and most of the outlying land was held by large land owners who made little move to settle their property).

The settled parts of New England had run out of new farm land so there was a growing group young landless families. New Hampshire started to sell cut rate deeds to the land in Vermont. They didn't have the legal right to do so, and the people who bought them knew they were of questionable legitimacy but they sold well anyway. So Vermont was settled by New Englanders who didn't have proper title to the land (they were basically squatters). When New York tried to reassert it's soverignty over the land it was met by the recently organized local militia (the Green Mountain Boys) and sent away at gunpoint. All this happened during the run up to the Revolution and in it's early part. The settlers of Vermont used the Revolution to establish themselves as a new political entity.

Early Vermont has interesting history.

Last edited by Drewcifer; 12-23-2010 at 12:37 AM..
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Old 12-23-2010, 04:05 AM
 
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It should also be noted that after the Revolution the New England farm families were also the first to settle central and western NY (skipping over the eastern feudal part to take up land offered by homegrown and Holland Dutch speculators), as well as northern PA and northeast OH (Connecticut had a pretty strong title to these lands, even before the Revolution had organized towns and a county in what's now the Wilkes-Barre PA area, and immediately after the Revolution strongly organized a move to the Firelands and Western Reserve of OH). In some ways western and central NY and far northern PA still resemble New England more than the core areas of their own states.
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Old 12-23-2010, 05:55 AM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
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^
Good point about upstate NY...that and NE Ohio (and Northern Illinois and Southern Wisconsin) are sort of extensions of New England. This is very strong in NE Ohio (the old "Western Reserve"), down to the rural villages having greens, like they do in "old" Connecticut.
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Old 12-23-2010, 06:33 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
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I just wish Vermont would annex the rest of upstate or something.

People like to complain about their state gov't, but in my opinion NY is by far the most dysfunctional state in the union, and its actually NOT due to politicians!!!
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Old 12-23-2010, 09:25 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gantz View Post
I just wish Vermont would annex the rest of upstate or something.

People like to complain about their state gov't, but in my opinion NY is by far the most dysfunctional state in the union, and its actually NOT due to politicians!!!
Why? What is it due to?
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Old 12-23-2010, 10:45 AM
 
Location: New York City
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Colonial borders were quite arbitrary and colonial history is very muddled. Eastern Long Island was historically part of New England rather than New York. That part of the island was settled by English speakers from Connecticut trying to contain the Dutch in New Amsterdam (New York City). This is still reflected in the county names: Nassau (Dutch) in the western half and Suffolk (English) in the eastern half. Connecticut also had claims to Westchester County.

All the colonies made extravgant and conflicting claims. Massachusetts claimed all the lands stretching to Wisconsin and Connecticut claimed all of the land stretching to Illinois. No one thinks of Chicago as being part of New England. On the other hand, New York claimed the eastern parts of Maine.

New York triumphed partly because it was so closely assoicated with the Crown. It was a Royal Province ruled directly from London.

All of this happened so long ago that it has little effect, apart from a few place names, anymore. Cultural affininty is more important. And Vermont is definitely cultrually part of New England.
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Old 12-23-2010, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
3,735 posts, read 3,847,195 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Why? What is it due to?
Geography of the state and colonial state borders. Both places (downstate and upstate) drag eachother down, especially since they are not integrated together economically.
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Old 02-06-2011, 07:42 AM
 
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Vermont was never really part of New York other than on paper. The early settlers were from NH, MA, and CT (including Ethan Allen and his boys).
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