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Waffle Houses! You know you have reached the south when you see one of them every two miles. I don't know how they all stay in buiness. You think they would canabalize each other.
I had never been in a Waffle House before and would never stop in one again. I was driving back from Arlington, Texas on Cooper Street and a horrific thunderstorm began, the tornadic type. I couldn't see a thing but then spotted a Waffle House sign in Mansfield, Texas and pulled into the parking lot. I went inside and thought I was in what would be hillbilly heaven to some. I stayed there until the storm passed and felt very uncomfortable and out of place to say the least. Scary!!
It doesn't make any sense at all to name the Mason-Dixon the IHOP-Waffle House Line. It may have been a good term at one time, but not the case at all today. Waffle Houses and IHOPS go well above the Mason-Dixon line in Missouri, Indiana, and Ohio. In Ohio they are found in Cleveland and Toledo. St. Louis, Indianapolis, Kansas City, and Columbus all have a bunch of IHOPS and Waffle Houses to my knowledge. I propose naming the Mason-Dixon line the "tobacco line" hehehe....tobacco doesn't grow north of the Mason-Dixon. Let's rename the Mason-Dixon the corn-cotton/tobacco line or sometime of crop line.
Good point, as I really don't think there are, at least anymore, chain operations that are restricted only to the Southern states. However, with that said, I think that there ARE certain food items that can be used, among many others, as a fairly decent indicator of an area's "Southerness" in areas commonly CONSIDERED Southern. For instance, restaurants specializing in catfish or BBQ . I once did a little informal "study" myself on the former item.
I took the idea from Dr. John Shelton Reed's (the famed "Southernologist" from UNC) mapping out the South by comparing the number of business listings with "Southern" in the name as compared to "American." In my own little "project" (hell, seemed like something to do on a Sunday afternoon! LOL).
ANYWAY, I did TWO seperate comparrisons, in both cases using McDonalds (as a fast food restaurant) as the independent variable. Using "Catfish" as the dependent as in "all businesses containing Catfish", the results were:
NOW then, using as the dependent variable the term "Catfish" as under the designation "Catfish Restaurants" only? The rank doesn't really change much, but the percentages drop some.
All other states, including the Carolinas, drop out of the picture at less than 1% (the Carolina thing kinda surprised me!).
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Here are two things I noted. As expected, all the states over 1% can be fairly considered either Southern or "Border" South" states. Or, as in the case of Missouri, to border the Mississippi River. The greatest concentration (over 10% in both cases) are in the states which, according to U.S. Census Bureau definition (again, with the exception of Missouri) are located in the "South Central" part of the country.
Just for fun, my next little effort will be to decide on "data points" as in specific cities within the "catfish belt" and make a map which will connect those points under a percentage designation. For instance, Jackson, Houston, Atlanta, Dallas, Oklahoma City, Nashville, etc, and smaller ones as well, such as Meridian, Marshall and Wichita Falls, Texas, and so on.
I have even done a bit of this. That is, doing the same comparrisons (with catfish restaurants only) with a few cities and locales. And, naturally, Texas being my home state was the focus of most of it. What I found was interesting, although not really surprising. That is, there was the expected east/west gradient. For instance, in the Marshall and Tyler, Texas areas (in East Texas) the number of catfish restaurants is on par with those found in Mississippi. That is, in some cases an even GREATER percentage ratio of Cat to Mac! LOL In far west and deep south Texas, with the hispanic influence (no telling how much illegal) catfish places are not all that common. Whereas in East, North and Central, they are extremely prevelant.
Oh well, just something in the for what it's worth department!
I don't know why there is a "my state is more Southern than yours" type of snobery but there seems to be.
I hate to say it- but.... I think some Southerners from the Deeper South are a tad jealous of Virginia because their states aren't as distinctive in culture as Virginia- or Texas for that matter.
Alabama, for example- its a nice place but its just.. Alabama. Its just a garden variety southern state.
In that regard I reply that Virginia was Southern long before Mississippi and Alabama were even states.
Just going back thru and catching up on some posts on a thread I started, and somehow missed this one! LOL
I hate to say it too, Vasinger, but I believe you are right. That is, that a certain "jealousy" is the underlying cause of why some from the Deep South (Deep South "purists"! LOL), exclude all but a couple of states from the South. And likewise, feel they can do so with confidence...even though history at least, doesn't provide the criteria for doing so.
*considers* Perhaps "jealousy" is not the right word. Maybe it is, to blend into your own thesis, more a sort of "defensiveness" and "protectiveness". That is, as you said, the "seperate" identity of Mississippi or Alabama is its "Deep", "Old" or "Confederate" South status. To a somewhat lesser extent, this may be true of Georgia and South Carolina, albeit in a different way...which I will elaborate on at another time.
In any event, yes, some in the above mentioned states will only grudgingly afford "Southern" status to other states with more "seperate" identities. Such as Texas, Virginia, etc.
With all that said though, don't get me wrong. My ancestral home is Mississippi and, to a lesser extent, Alabama. It is where my family roots are. It was those g-g-g grandfathers, mothers, aunts and uncles who made that long trek to Texas after the War and made Texas what it is today. I would LOVE to really visit both states, explore and find out things about my own roots. And both are beautiful places. If I ever had to leave Texas, Mississippi or Alabama is where I would go.
I am suprised that Kentucky is so low on those lists considering how much catfish you can get just around here though they tend to be independant mom n' pop places.
I am suprised that Kentucky is so low on those lists considering how much catfish you can get just around here though they tend to be independant mom n' pop places.
Actually, MissyMom, relatively speaking when comparing the whole country, Kentucky is NOT that low. The "less than 1%" thingy is, in some cases, in many states, means almost non-existent! LOL
Anyway, gotta go to a family reuion. The "grits" and "black-eyed pea" belt is next on the list of things to map out!
Actually, MissyMom, relatively speaking when comparing the whole country, Kentucky is NOT that low. The "less than 1%" thingy is, in some cases, in many states, means almost non-existent! LOL
Anyway, gotta go to a family reuion. The "grits" and "black-eyed pea" belt is next on the list of things to map out!
I had never been in a Waffle House before and would never stop in one again. I was driving back from Arlington, Texas on Cooper Street and a horrific thunderstorm began, the tornadic type. I couldn't see a thing but then spotted a Waffle House sign in Mansfield, Texas and pulled into the parking lot. I went inside and thought I was in what would be hillbilly heaven to some. I stayed there until the storm passed and felt very uncomfortable and out of place to say the least. Scary!!
Really? Hm, I haven't thought of the patrons of Waffle House in that way, lol! My hubby considers himself a redneck/hillbilly but I wouldn't put him on the lowest rung of either category. Maybe your visit was just unfortunate timing! I do love Waffle House breakfasts!
Have a wonderful time, TexasReb, at your family reunion!
Really? Hm, I haven't thought of the patrons of Waffle House in that way, lol! My hubby considers himself a redneck/hillbilly but I wouldn't put him on the lowest rung of either category. Maybe your visit was just unfortunate timing! I do love Waffle House breakfasts!
Have a wonderful time, TexasReb, at your family reunion!
Thanks Miss Blueskies, and yep we did. Good ol' Southern food, kinfolk, and even sang Dixie and The Yellow Rose of Texas!
As to the topic at hand, Waffle House, I agree with you 100%, Blue.
I have a sheepskin hanging on the wall, and am in a professional career...but I'd rather eat grits and gravy, and sop up runny yellow eggs with toast in a Waffle House each morning with Billy Bob and Jimmy Wayne, than I would partake of quiche and endive salad with Horace and Bruce.
The former are the ones who keep cars running, roads paved, roofs shingled, and wars fought.
Good point, as I really don't think there are, at least anymore, chain operations that are restricted only to the Southern states. However, with that said, I think that there ARE certain food items that can be used, among many others, as a fairly decent indicator of an area's "Southerness" in areas commonly CONSIDERED Southern. For instance, restaurants specializing in catfish or BBQ . I once did a little informal "study" myself on the former item.
I took the idea from Dr. John Shelton Reed's (the famed "Southernologist" from UNC) mapping out the South by comparing the number of business listings with "Southern" in the name as compared to "American." In my own little "project" (hell, seemed like something to do on a Sunday afternoon! LOL).
ANYWAY, I did TWO seperate comparrisons, in both cases using McDonalds (as a fast food restaurant) as the independent variable. Using "Catfish" as the dependent as in "all businesses containing Catfish", the results were:
NOW then, using as the dependent variable the term "Catfish" as under the designation "Catfish Restaurants" only? The rank doesn't really change much, but the percentages drop some.
All other states, including the Carolinas, drop out of the picture at less than 1% (the Carolina thing kinda surprised me!).
************************************
Here are two things I noted. As expected, all the states over 1% can be fairly considered either Southern or "Border" South" states. Or, as in the case of Missouri, to border the Mississippi River. The greatest concentration (over 10% in both cases) are in the states which, according to U.S. Census Bureau definition (again, with the exception of Missouri) are located in the "South Central" part of the country.
Just for fun, my next little effort will be to decide on "data points" as in specific cities within the "catfish belt" and make a map which will connect those points under a percentage designation. For instance, Jackson, Houston, Atlanta, Dallas, Oklahoma City, Nashville, etc, and smaller ones as well, such as Meridian, Marshall and Wichita Falls, Texas, and so on.
I have even done a bit of this. That is, doing the same comparrisons (with catfish restaurants only) with a few cities and locales. And, naturally, Texas being my home state was the focus of most of it. What I found was interesting, although not really surprising. That is, there was the expected east/west gradient. For instance, in the Marshall and Tyler, Texas areas (in East Texas) the number of catfish restaurants is on par with those found in Mississippi. That is, in some cases an even GREATER percentage ratio of Cat to Mac! LOL In far west and deep south Texas, with the hispanic influence (no telling how much illegal) catfish places are not all that common. Whereas in East, North and Central, they are extremely prevelant.
Oh well, just something in the for what it's worth department!
Missouri surprises me...for what it's worth, there are businesses that display the name "Southern" in them in places that are clearly not the South. Southern Ohio, Southern Illinois, and Southern Indiana have this same type f thing going on. St. Louis, a solidly Midwestern city, has a couple of businesses that display the name Southern in them, but given that Missouri was a border state during the Civil War it doesn't surprise me that it would have a higher percentage number of businesses with "Southern" than the rest of its fellow Midwestern states. I would genuinely expect the historic border states and the Southern states to have the name "Southern" in them much more commonly than those states that were free territory. But I'd still say that's not an indicator of what makes something truly Southern, not today...if you see something like that, it indicates you are in the South or in a state that borders the South.
Excellent answer, LS! I know that there are Waffle Houses in non-Southern states (Ohio, Indiana, Arizona, etc), but, as you said, the concentration of them is likely one of many good indicators of how "Southern" a place is.
Waffle House corporate headquarters is located in Atlanta, so there should be more of them in Georgia and surrounding states. Just like Chik-fil-a or Arby's...
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