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How is this any different from other ethnic groups in America? Hispanics have their own culture, Black Americans do, etc.
To the naked eye Hispanics appear to have a similar culture but there are actually some differences when you look at them closer. True they all speak Spanish (which is a huge similarity) but the food, music, and even their cultural make up (more or less pure European ancestry), and even the politics back in their native country differs when looking at people from Mexico as compared to Panama as compared to Cuba as compared to Puerto Rico, etc. This all helps to shape the subtle differences in culture and attitude between an Argentinian American vs. Venezuelan Americans vs. ......
To answer your second point:
Black Americans, or African Americans form the USA, who have been here for generations have some similarities and some differences to the newer waves of Africans or first generation African Americans but their paths, and ultimately cultural make up, are different.
Here's an example
In Houston, I've noticed that many people from Nigeria immigrate here due to the oil connections. I have picked up, and identified many characteristics within the Nigerian culture (strong family ties, huge importance on education, and loyalty). I can speculate that this might be true because a majority of the Nigerians might have led successful lives in Nigeria which enabled them the opportunity to relocate themselves, and their families to the US, and pass those admirable traits on to their children.
Not saying those attributes aren't evident in the African Americans that have been here for many generations but their families and ancestors have had different experiences, and journeys that shaped their culture and understanding and has, as a by product, led to a different 'sub-culture'.
Someone form New York might be better able to explain the differences, or similarities, in the African Americans in the US (many generations) vs. the African Americans of the Caribbean countries that seem to relocate in large numbers to NYC. I'm sure some of their characteristics are the same and some are a little different.
It's not just where you are from that influences a sub culture (i.e. Italian- American) but how you got there, where you are, and how you reacted to the situations thrown at you.
Back on topic:
Most Italians who immigrated to the US were from the Southern regions, were dirt poor, were escaping what they felt was a country that was unjust and jaded toward the north, and as a result they were forced to work hard for everything they had in this new foreign land. They hoped they could provide something better for future generations. Many started in horrible living conditions (tenement buildings) and had to group together to make a living and so this definitely helped shape this sub culture. Some did it legitimately and some not. Unfortunately, some of those who were not 'legit' felt they could increase their power by 'terrorizing' the newly arrived Italians and they did.
Now compare their journey to a highly successful fashioista from Milan or Tuscany (the North) who immigrated directly to the U.S. to live in one of those posh brownstones on 5th Avenue. They wouldn't have to rely on as much of a sub culture to get by.
So how Italian do you have to be to call yourself an Italian American? I'm only 1/8 haha
Anyway, something I want to elaborate on:
The south pretty much missed that big immigrant wave at the turn of the century, but a handful of those immigrants ended up in the south and really made their mark. In almost every small, well established town in the deep south, there will probably be at least one Italian or southern European family and one Jewish family. In most towns they founded successful stores and markets and became a big part of the community. But an Italian family in the south is not going to have the same stereotypical demeanor as an Italian from NYC. They're very southern, but they still are proud of their heritage and they're actually considered kind of exotic among the other people in town.
Actually, Louisiana used to boast the largest Italian population in the USA until Ellis Island became the main entry point for immigrants. Up until that point, New Orleans was the main city where alot of Italians lived. In fact, the "French Quarter" actually had a large Italian population. Many were involved in the shipping business and fruit markets. St. Francis Cabrini, an Italian immigrant, founded an orphanage in New Orleans. The Italian influence can be found in the food. Ever hear of a muffuletta? It's an Italian sandwich that was created in New Orleans in 1906. Tomatoes, which are used in Italian cuisine, were part of the influences in Louisiana cuisine.
Last edited by green_mariner; 06-09-2012 at 10:13 PM..
The New Orleans Italians are much more southern and have many more Cajun influences.
The Italians in New Orleans (all almost 100% Sicilian) have remained pretty true to their culture. They (I could say we but I am only a small percentage Italian) have heavily influenced the city and helped to develop the Yat accent (which some people describe as sounding somewhat like a New York accent). St. Joseph's Day is big business with alters all around the city and multiple parades. They have picked up many aspects of New Orleans culture (which is not Cajun) but they still have their own seperate culture too. Trust me; my uncle is such a proud and stereotypical Italian. Back to the OP's topic, Italians here are loud, proud, humorous, and family oriented but then it sounds like I just described the average New Orleanian.
Also there is a town called Independence in Tangipahoa Parish which has a large Italian community with annual festivals and they even painted thier water tower in the colors of the Italian flag.
I've had the pleasure of meeting some Italian Americans from the West Coast(mainly California). I have found that many that I have met are proud of their heritage, and are family oriented. That being said, the things that would be considered "stereotypical Italian" I don't see from Italian-Americans from California. Actually, many Italian-Americans, regardless of location, I have met were like that.
Of course most are American first and foremost and have few similarities to actual Italians from Italy, but if they're anything like Italian Australians or the Italian Americans depicted on the screen, they tend to retain aspects of Italian culture that set them apart from most Americans.
I suppose the one stereotype would be that they tend to be extroverted, personable, and either your best friend or your worst enemy. Even here, Italians tend to definitely be a bit more 'out there', treat you in a more 'familiar' manner, and have a more natural sense of humour that other groups lack. I think some things are probably dying out among the younger generation, like males kissing each other on the cheek, but it seems Italians everywhere tend to hold on to their culture, tradition and customs moreso than other groups.
Not to say that these traits are ONLY found among Italians, but I think even though many have lived in the States for several generations, these cultural traits tend to get passed down.
Of course there is also the love of food, a zest for life, having a good time.etc.
Would you say Hispanics have a similar culture? In what ways is the culture of Americanized Hispanics different from that of Italians (apart from the obvious)? Or might it more be a reflection of the culture of the Northeast? Also does the large Italian population pervade the population in cities and more particularly certain neighbourhoods in cities like NYC, Newark, Philly, Hartford, Boston, Albany.etc? For instance, is the culture/society/behaviour of Jewish, Irish, Puerto Rican New Yorkers largely influenced by Italian culture?
And is this 'stereotypical' Italian American type behaviour largely limited to those areas with large Italian populations? I would assume it is strongest in the boroughs of NYC, Jersey and Boston, being a bit less prevalent in the cities of CT, RI, Upstate NY, and less prevalent outside the Northeast, for instance NOLA and San Francisco. Chicago might be another area with a strong Italian cultural presence/influence.
I'm going to keep this simple because I don't know a lot about it, but I do think Italian-Americans have a strong sub-culture that has been retained. I think there are many reasons for this and some of those are that even though established, they are relatively-recent immigrants, they had a strong culture to begin with, they've become prominent business owners and fairly-wealthy families, and because they have strong family values and large families. I would liken their subculture to that of Jews. I think Catholicism and being more of an "ethnic" grade of white plays a big role in all of this too.
I think Catholics themselves have a pretty strong sub-culture, and many ethnic groups that are Catholic do as well. While I've never experienced it, I believe the Irish have a strong sub-culture in the northeast, much like Italians, the center of which is probably Boston.
Perhaps less visible and more rural, but I think Lutherans have a bit of sub-culture as well. I don't know much about it, but I know there are small towns and areas in Kansas, where I'm from, as well as other states, that are still inhabited by original immigrants. I think the upper midwest (like Minnesota) has a strong Lutheran sub-culture. Maybe Episcopalians do too. And others. Frankly, I think any group in which they have retained the same long-established religion for many, many generations going all the way back to Europe have a very strong culture that's been carried on.
Unfortunately, I and many others don't know what that's like. My family traces back to several places in Europe, but nothing has been passed on. I'm definitely quite a blend of various countries of origin, including Native America. (My Indian background is real. My grandma looks the part and grew up in an Indian orphanage). I think those of us who have roots in Southern white peasantry (agrictultural working class, I guess) didn't have a lot of culture passed on because those types of people didn't do so. I think that's partly why on ancestry maps of the US, you'll see much of the South chooses "American", while much of the rest of the country chooses German, Irish, English, etc. In this regard, a lot of white people have it just about as bad as African Americans when it comes to where we came from.
I live in the West so I don't really know that many Italians but the ones I have known do seem to have elements of their culture still. It's definitely a unique sort of Italian though, I'm sure the people actually from Italy are quite a bit different in many ways?
I find most Italian Americans to be some combination of loud, brash, proud, tough as nails, tight-knit, and very direct. I think they're fantastic and I hope they never totally assimilate into bland, boring standardized Americans.
To the naked eye Hispanics appear to have a similar culture but there are actually some differences when you look at them closer. True they all speak Spanish (which is a huge similarity) but the food, music, and even their cultural make up (more or less pure European ancestry), and even the politics back in their native country differs when looking at people from Mexico as compared to Panama as compared to Cuba as compared to Puerto Rico, etc. This all helps to shape the subtle differences in culture and attitude between an Argentinian American vs. Venezuelan Americans vs. ......
To answer your second point:
Black Americans, or African Americans form the USA, who have been here for generations have some similarities and some differences to the newer waves of Africans or first generation African Americans but their paths, and ultimately cultural make up, are different.
Here's an example
In Houston, I've noticed that many people from Nigeria immigrate here due to the oil connections. I have picked up, and identified many characteristics within the Nigerian culture (strong family ties, huge importance on education, and loyalty). I can speculate that this might be true because a majority of the Nigerians might have led successful lives in Nigeria which enabled them the opportunity to relocate themselves, and their families to the US, and pass those admirable traits on to their children.
Not saying those attributes aren't evident in the African Americans that have been here for many generations but their families and ancestors have had different experiences, and journeys that shaped their culture and understanding and has, as a by product, led to a different 'sub-culture'.
Someone form New York might be better able to explain the differences, or similarities, in the African Americans in the US (many generations) vs. the African Americans of the Caribbean countries that seem to relocate in large numbers to NYC. I'm sure some of their characteristics are the same and some are a little different.
It's not just where you are from that influences a sub culture (i.e. Italian- American) but how you got there, where you are, and how you reacted to the situations thrown at you.
Back on topic:
Most Italians who immigrated to the US were from the Southern regions, were dirt poor, were escaping what they felt was a country that was unjust and jaded toward the north, and as a result they were forced to work hard for everything they had in this new foreign land. They hoped they could provide something better for future generations. Many started in horrible living conditions (tenement buildings) and had to group together to make a living and so this definitely helped shape this sub culture. Some did it legitimately and some not. Unfortunately, some of those who were not 'legit' felt they could increase their power by 'terrorizing' the newly arrived Italians and they did.
Now compare their journey to a highly successful fashioista from Milan or Tuscany (the North) who immigrated directly to the U.S. to live in one of those posh brownstones on 5th Avenue. They wouldn't have to rely on as much of a sub culture to get by.
I understand that, but I'm not sure how it keeps any of those other groups from having their own culture. I'm not disagreeing with you, but I think the OP might be a little misinformed.
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Originally Posted by Nairobi
I understand that, but I'm not sure how it keeps any of those other groups from having their own culture. I'm not disagreeing with you, but I think the OP might be a little misinformed.
Other groups have their culture, but it seems Italian Americans just have more of a CULTURE and wear their Italian heritage on their sleeve a bit more than the other groups. The same is true in Australia, so it's probably more an Italian thing in general.
Other groups have their culture, but it seems Italian Americans just have more of a CULTURE and wear their Italian heritage on their sleeve a bit more than the other groups. The same is true in Australia, so it's probably more an Italian thing in general.
Well, you have to remember that it's one nation, so the exclusivity is more noticeable, but I just haven't noticed that Italians seemed to assimilate any less than other ethnic groups.
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