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I don't care if they're loyal Americans or not. If they're truly loyal then they'd know what it means. Should British people fly German flags because they have German heritage? Should Italian people fly German flags because they have German heritage? No. And why would you after your ancestors fleed the places? They basically renounced their citizenship to those places and yet generations later we get these malcontent dopes who barely understand Ciao calling their grandmothers nonna and as I said, wouldn't even exist without America. If America didn't exist neither would they therefore they can't really call themselves a "son of Italy" or a "son of Ireland."
Do whatever you want I don't care. I don't have to like it and you don't have to care. I rub my beloved flag in their face as well as all Italians, Irish, Polish and Mexicans out there waving their little rags in our faces.
As some of the youngsters like to say, "why you mad bro?".
It's cool, not everyone is lucky enough to be born with Italian heritage, only the lucky ones!
Well, I'm Italian, and I've born in Italy. I think we're different than Italian born in USA. Maybe they have their own culture, made by cliches, or old tradition. But I miss my country sometimes, so I tend to go out with other Italians, or watch Mediaset Italia on TV to feel more close to my people.
I grew up in the second-most Italian-American community in the most Italian-American U.S. state (i.e., the state with the highest percentage of self-reported Italian ancestry).
Both of my grandfathers were children of Italian immigrants, and my paternal grandmother was born in the town of Intradacqua, which is a commune in the Province of L'Aquila in the Abruzzo region of Italy.
Thankfully, my maternal grandmother was a third-generation American of Irish heritage, so that's why I speak and write so well, and why I have such a beautiful smile and fair complexion.
But that's beside the point.
My father, who was born, raised and has lived his entire life (>60 years) in the United States; can't put two words together in Italian; and has never traveled to Italy, *STILL* considers and describes himself as "Italian."
However, in my parents' community and general area, it's quite common for Italian-Americans to self-identify as "Italian" as opposed to "American." It's also quite common for people to wave Italian flags at their homes, affix magnets of the Italian flag to their vehicles, cheer for Italian teams, and boast in general about being "Italian."
If you can't tell, people in that area tend to wear being "Italian" as a badge of honor, but it's truly overplayed, IMO, because, like my father, most these "Italians" can't speak a word of Italian, aside from the curse words and phrases; have never even traveled to Italy, let alone lived there; and are at the very least 2-3 generations removed from the "old country," especially if we're referring to those in the Baby Boomer generation such as my parents.
In much of the northeastern United States, you observe this type of behavior in the working and lower-middle class communities, and pretty much universally in the smaller, more parochial metro areas (e.g., Providence, Hartford, Worcester, Syracuse, Rochester, Buffalo, etc.).
Reread the post of the user "nep321" who responded up-thread. He and his family, who are from the Hartford area of Connecticut, certainly fit the profile of Italian-Americans from smaller cities in the Northeast, and his description largely corroborates with my own personal experience of growing up in similar circumstances.
In the wealthier suburbs of Boston, New York, Chicago and (I'm guessing) Philadelphia, you tend to encounter many Italian-Americans who are, obviously, better educated, higher income and more well-traveled. Those in this subset seem to be more likely to have traveled to Italy several times, at least conversational in Italian and less prone to the idiosyncrasies that characterize stereotypical Italian-Americans from the Northeast.
Because the vast majority of Italian-Americans - regardless of income, education or where they were born/raised in the U.S. - are descended from poor Southern Italian peasants who arrived in America somewhere in the range of 95-130 years ago, much of modern-day Italian-American culture, including food, drink, religious traditions, etc., is derived from Southern Italian peasant culture and, in turn, is almost entirely dissimilar to modern-day Italian culture in Italy.
My parents and most of their siblings and cousins (all in their 50's, 60's and 70's) have this weird, distorted perspective of Italy and Italian culture, which is largely based off of their grandparents' descriptions of Italy at the turn of the 20th century.
Here's my prediction: After Italian-Americans in the Baby Boomer generation are gone, stereotypical Italian-American culture and traits are going to be less prevalent/pronounced in the United States.
The children and grandchildren of [Baby Boomer] Italian-Americans are even further removed from Italy than their parents/grandparents. Also, they're more likely to be admixed with other ethnicities (and even other races) and living in regions of the country, such as the South and West, with lower percentages of Italian-Americans and hardly any traditionally Italian enclaves or communities.
Italian-American culture is definitely a sort of hybrid of Southern Italian culture and American culture. Around 85% of Italian immigration to the United States originated from the Mezzogiorno, particularly with Sicily, Campania, Calabria and Basilicata. Coincidentally I was hanging out with two Italian-born individuals yesterday, one a tourist and the other who has been living in Pennsylvania for a year. They did touch upon how they found Italian-American culture to be very foreign and how Italian-American food was generally very unauthentic. However, both noted that they found restaurants in Miami where there was authentic Neopolitan fare.
Another thing that is interesting is that the vast majority of Italian-Americans are unable to speak standard Italian or any regional dialect. I have seen arguments about whether "gravy" or "sauce" is Italian, when the answer is neither is used, as it is "salsa" or "ragu".
One thing I posted earlier was how for authentic Italian culture you are probably better finding it in Toronto or Montreal rather than New York City or Philadelphia. Toronto has more Italian-born individuals than all of New York state, and the city of Montreal has more than NJ, CT, PA, RI or MA. One thing I found in those cities was seeing second-generation children in Italian-language schools etc. Even Melbourne and Australia have far more Italian born individuals than every single state, except New York.
Speaking for the rest of the world, and as British guy with some Irish ancestry, I don't want to spike your bubble, but we are not interested in Americans who go on about, Italian, Irish, Jewish ancestry, though Once upon A Time in America is a good film and the Godfather a great series, you cannot keep harping back, especially as your relatives arrived from 1860-1920, nobody in America is pure this or pure that, you just feel good in yourselves that you belong to a certain group. My DNA to the British Isles goes back at least 2,000 years ( as do a lot of Southern state Americans) and I am happy with that, whereas, in a changing world you are clinging on to an identity that ( I am sure not all US-Irish bed/married US-Irish) is not important to the world, maybe back in the 1950`s ( when you were the dominant urban cultures) but America to me is, now, about Black-Americans ( who, lets face it do all your great music, and Southern poorer white folk) and now Mexican-Americans. The term Irish/Italian American, is I am afraid, embarrassing to people in Europe. If you don't visit your ancestral homes at least ONCE a year then you are just.... American
By the way LOBSTA, British people do not have German heritage, but are a Celtic country ( Germanic blood, if you mean Saxon, is barely 25%) . Americans should travel a lot more.
I grew up in the second-most Italian-American community in the most Italian-American U.S. state (i.e., the state with the highest percentage of self-reported Italian ancestry).
Both of my grandfathers were children of Italian immigrants, and my paternal grandmother was born in the town of Intradacqua, which is a commune in the Province of L'Aquila in the Abruzzo region of Italy.
Thankfully, my maternal grandmother was a third-generation American of Irish heritage, so that's why I speak and write so well, and why I have such a beautiful smile and fair complexion.
But that's beside the point.
My father, who was born, raised and has lived his entire life (>60 years) in the United States; can't put two words together in Italian; and has never traveled to Italy, *STILL* considers and describes himself as "Italian."
However, in my parents' community and general area, it's quite common for Italian-Americans to self-identify as "Italian" as opposed to "American." It's also quite common for people to wave Italian flags at their homes, affix magnets of the Italian flag to their vehicles, cheer for Italian teams, and boast in general about being "Italian."
If you can't tell, people in that area tend to wear being "Italian" as a badge of honor, but it's truly overplayed, IMO, because, like my father, most these "Italians" can't speak a word of Italian, aside from the curse words and phrases; have never even traveled to Italy, let alone lived there; and are at the very least 2-3 generations removed from the "old country," especially if we're referring to those in the Baby Boomer generation such as my parents.
In much of the northeastern United States, you observe this type of behavior in the working and lower-middle class communities, and pretty much universally in the smaller, more parochial metro areas (e.g., Providence, Hartford, Worcester, Syracuse, Rochester, Buffalo, etc.).
Reread the post of the user "nep321" who responded up-thread. He and his family, who are from the Hartford area of Connecticut, certainly fit the profile of Italian-Americans from smaller cities in the Northeast, and his description largely corroborates with my own personal experience of growing up in similar circumstances.
In the wealthier suburbs of Boston, New York, Chicago and (I'm guessing) Philadelphia, you tend to encounter many Italian-Americans who are, obviously, better educated, higher income and more well-traveled. Those in this subset seem to be more likely to have traveled to Italy several times, at least conversational in Italian and less prone to the idiosyncrasies that characterize stereotypical Italian-Americans from the Northeast.
Because the vast majority of Italian-Americans - regardless of income, education or where they were born/raised in the U.S. - are descended from poor Southern Italian peasants who arrived in America somewhere in the range of 95-130 years ago, much of modern-day Italian-American culture, including food, drink, religious traditions, etc., is derived from Southern Italian peasant culture and, in turn, is almost entirely dissimilar to modern-day Italian culture in Italy.
My parents and most of their siblings and cousins (all in their 50's, 60's and 70's) have this weird, distorted perspective of Italy and Italian culture, which is largely based off of their grandparents' descriptions of Italy at the turn of the 20th century.
Here's my prediction: After Italian-Americans in the Baby Boomer generation are gone, stereotypical Italian-American culture and traits are going to be less prevalent/pronounced in the United States.
The children and grandchildren of [Baby Boomer] Italian-Americans are even further removed from Italy than their parents/grandparents. Also, they're more likely to be admixed with other ethnicities (and even other races) and living in regions of the country, such as the South and West, with lower percentages of Italian-Americans and hardly any traditionally Italian enclaves or communities.
While I see what you are saying in terms of the smaller/medium sized Northeastern areas, you do have Italians that are 1st and 2nd generation and can speak the language. You also have educated, middle/upper class Italians in those areas. For instance, in Syracuse, they tend to live in suburban towns like Cicero, Clay and Salina, among others or live in the Sedgwick or Eastwood neighborhoods in the city.
While I see what you are saying in terms of the smaller/medium sized Northeastern areas, you do have Italians that are 1st and 2nd generation and can speak the language. You also have educated, middle/upper class Italians in those areas. For instance, in Syracuse, they tend to live in suburban towns like Cicero, Clay and Salina, among others or live in the Sedgwick or Eastwood neighborhoods in the city.
Places with the highest percentage born in Italy (not surprisingly dominated by the NYC area):
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