fictional scenario -- how much to live comfortably in your area? (for sale, apartments)

[StampinTami]

Originally Posted by pkoons

"comfortably" - I guess it's a little more than that - the scenario describes a family that is well above the national average - but I figured this is a pretty ideal scenario that is still within reach in a lot of the areas in the country. I didn't throw in a mansion, boat, Rolex, beach house, or Ferrari or anything that is truly a LUXURY good...

I guess it's based on comparison - this describes a LOT of the families that live in my immediate area. I know this may not be typical in areas outside of New England, DC, Chicago, South Florida, or California.

Feel free to create your own scenario in addition to "pricing" MY scenario for your area of the country

Um, thats not typical in this area in Ca.

[MoMark]

[quote=pkoons;118924]With all the questions about how expensive housing is, etc. etc., let's take a look back and evaluate the big picture. In other words, we can all go on and on about how big or expensive one's house is, or vice versa, but a lot of people didn't have to buy their houses within the last 5 years at the price that it would currently take to purchase it, which totally changes the perspective. I just voted in the poll "How much house can you afford" and I was in the top bracket - in my area, Annapolis, MD, I would likely be towards the bottom of mid-pack. As a single person, I have an IDEAL annual income in mind that would scare everyone (to afford the house and car and all of the other things I want), but I certainly would not complain about my current scenario either. Anyway, this got me thinking - so below I have created a fictional scenario that I would consider "living comfortably" - not super-wealthy, not living paycheck to paycheck, but a scenario in which the family is definitely not worried about money. In YOUR area of the country, how much would it take to live like the following family described below???

* Assume a dual income family with 2 school-aged children
* 4 bedroom, 2.5 bath, relatively new 3200 sq. foot house on 1/2 acre in desirable area with 10% down payment A 3200sq.ft. house?
* 2 very nice but not extravagant cars - assume a BMW 3 series for hubby and a Lexus SUV for the wife Not extravagant huh?
* Private school for both children and/or college funding plan Private school, right, like the rest of middle America
* 2 vacations a year - 1 to visit family and 1 to a tropical island/nice resort
* Decent home theater/stereo/game room A lot of celebrity reality tv watched here is my guess!
* Football season tickets, theater season passes, or equivalent luxury item
* Country club and gym memberships for husband & wife
* Cell phone for all 4 family members What kind of parents would provide all this for their kids?
* Dinner out 3 nights a week - 2 family restaurants and 1 upscale Why have granite countertops in your 3200sq. ft. house with stainless appliances if you don't use the kitchen for dinner and meals?
* Saving or investing 10% of income
* Upscale shopping tendencies (Whole Foods, Nordstrom's, as opposed to big box retailers)
This is what you consider living "comfortably" and not wealthy hmm? Sounds like Stanley Johnson's family. This is a completely unrealistic scenario in my opinion. I live myself for example on less than $1000 a month. I own a 2300sq.ft custom brick 3/2 on 4.3 acres in a very nice area and I own it free and clear. I paid cash for it. My property would cost $1,000,000 plus in most of the West or East Coasts. I drive a Toyota Tacoma truck I bought new in 1998 and find it suits my needs very well. It's also paid off already five years. I have zero credit card or loan debt and am careful about extravagances I don't need, although, when I decided I wanted a Waterford Crystal Chandelier for my dining room, I had to have it made to order in Waterford, Ireland and shipped to me as there were none in inventory in the U.S. at any vendor. It retails $3000. My drapes are custom made for the 12ft. windows-$2300. I'm willing to spend when I want to, but if you find me in a supermarket and tell me to buy a box of cereal that costs $4-5, I'm going to tell you where to stick it. I think that's outrageous. I rarely eat out but have learned to cook for myself, I don't wear fancy clothes, but wear dockers/golf shirts for work purchased at Sam's Club or Target, I have lots of bling left over from an earlier existence years ago including an $8500 stone I wear occasionally, I have original art pieces signed by some rather well known artists ranging from antique to ultra-modern, and I get mad if filling up my gas tank costs more than $23. My last trip was to Europe in 2003 to stay with friends in Germany, then I took a lady friend to Paris for a week. I haven't gone anywhere on vacation for pleasure since and feel no need to. I like to be at home. I also keep a good chunk in savings, have a cushion for a rainy day, and without debt can work at McDonalds if I had to and survive. I'd rather be MoMark than one of the millions of Stanley Johnsons living an unrealistic balance of debt and show, but no substance and no security, and 10% down on a house of that caliber is a sign the person buying it who has all of these other extravagant expenses by choice has no business buying it and living in vulnerability. Just MHO.

[Need_affordable_home]

Originally Posted by pkoons

* Assume a dual income family with 2 school-aged children
* 4 bedroom, 2.5 bath, relatively new 3200 sq. foot house on 1/2 acre in desirable area with 10% down payment
* 2 very nice but not extravagant cars - assume a BMW 3 series for hubby and a Lexus SUV for the wife
* Private school for both children and/or college funding plan
* 2 vacations a year - 1 to visit family and 1 to a tropical island/nice resort
* Decent home theater/stereo/game room
* Football season tickets, theater season passes, or equivalent luxury item
* Country club and gym memberships for husband & wife
* Cell phone for all 4 family members
* Dinner out 3 nights a week - 2 family restaurants and 1 upscale
* Saving or investing 10% of income
* Upscale shopping tendencies (Whole Foods, Nordstrom's, as opposed to big box retailers)
* Charitable or religious giving based on personal preference

In Annapolis, MD or most of the attractive areas around Baltimore or DC, this scenario would require a family with a dual annual income of approximately $275-325K.

LOL this is what upper middle class people live! To live a lifestyle like that would require about $200k annual income! Not relistic except for the rich!


My scinerio:

* Single income by me. No wife, no children(not interested!)
* Hmmm, lets say 5 bed, 2 bath 2500 square foot vintage brick house in a semi rural area for $70k.($28 per square foot)
* A single used car for $3000 is all I need.
* Dont want a wife, dont want children!
* Vacations to visit my family would cost about $300 round trip, not bad.
* Dont need. Ill get a $200 TV, a $1000 computer and some accessories for a few hundred combined.
* Cant afford luxury item. Not interested in football
* Ill just buy some weights and use one of the 5 bedrooms as a home gym
* Dont need phones, cant use them anyway, nearly deaf.
* Eat out at Mcdonalds, Burger king, small restaurant.
* Saving or investing 50% of income(not sure how much ill be able to save, but more is better! I want enough to retire early!)
* Ill shop all right but nothing too expensive!


Comfortable income $40k to $50k a year, more would be nice!

[stellar9]

Originally Posted by pkoons

* Assume a dual income family with 2 school-aged children
* 4 bedroom, 2.5 bath, relatively new 3200 sq. foot house on 1/2 acre in desirable area with 10% down payment
* 2 very nice but not extravagant cars - assume a BMW 3 series for hubby and a Lexus SUV for the wife
* Private school for both children and/or college funding plan
* 2 vacations a year - 1 to visit family and 1 to a tropical island/nice resort
* Decent home theater/stereo/game room
* Football season tickets, theater season passes, or equivalent luxury item
* Country club and gym memberships for husband & wife
* Cell phone for all 4 family members
* Dinner out 3 nights a week - 2 family restaurants and 1 upscale
* Saving or investing 10% of income
* Upscale shopping tendencies (Whole Foods, Nordstrom's, as opposed to big box retailers)
* Charitable or religious giving based on personal preference

As a single person, I can guess you would consider this an ideal or comfortable family life.
As a married person with 9 children, just barely eeking out a living in California, I just can't relate to this scenario at all. BMW and Lexus seem like luxury cars to me. The home you described would be close to a $1M here and since I just shop and spend $1000 on groceries for my family each month, shopping at Whole Foods would probably double that.
But for the sake of conversation, I'd say that the family would have to bring in over $300,000/per year to live like you describe, but it could be more.

Micki

[elfyum]

I guess Miami IS expensive! Combined we make about 65k and we live VERY modestly!!!!!!! No car payments, (old '94, '96 cars bought used!) just the regular bills - mortgage, car/home/flood/wind ins, cell phones, phone, dsl, electric, water, gas, parking, check-ups, taxes, prescriptions, food (for us & Oscy fish )...
I don't buy clothes until what I have is in shreds just not into it. My love always buys dress shirts/ties/pants for his job but bargain priced! He'll order a pizza sometimes or we'll take out Indian or Thai food once in a blue moon (haven't in at least a month) We order vitamins & cruelty free/enviornment-friendly home products online. We order books sometimes. I mean, that's about it! Most money goes to that long list above. But we're fine! Sure it would be nice to have more money to invest or buy more property, but...
Life is good!

[UB50]

* Assume a dual income family with 2 school-aged children
* 4 bedroom, 2.5 bath, relatively new 3200 sq. foot house on 1/2 acre in desirable area with 10% down payment
* 2 very nice but not extravagant cars - assume a BMW 3 series for hubby and a Lexus SUV for the wife
* Private school for both children and/or college funding plan
* 2 vacations a year - 1 to visit family and 1 to a tropical island/nice resort
* Decent home theater/stereo/game room
* Football season tickets, theater season passes, or equivalent luxury item
* Country club and gym memberships for husband & wife
* Cell phone for all 4 family members
* Dinner out 3 nights a week - 2 family restaurants and 1 upscale
* Saving or investing 10% of income
* Upscale shopping tendencies (Whole Foods, Nordstrom's, as opposed to big box retailers)
* Charitable or religious giving based on personal preference

I'm in Los Angeles. The "4 bedroom, 2.5 bath, relatively new 3200 sq. foot house on 1/2 acre in desirable area with 10% down payment" is a real stumper since 1/2 acre lots are very hard to come by -- and why would someone put something only 3200 sq. ft. on that? You might find an old home on a lot that size but you will never find a new home on a lot that size. New homes are HUGE!!

Just guessing, but I think you need to make upwards of $500K a year to afford all that. Of course, out here, $500K probably isn't very much and you would find yourself feeling kind of miserable with your BMW and your Lexus. Unfortunately, California has a lot of billionaires, not just millionaires. Your privately schooled children won't be happy with a home theater -- not when people like the Spellings have bowling alleys in their homes.

Dinners out won't amount to all that much, but in Southern California Nordstroms is kind of ordinary. Upscale would be Barney's or Rodeo Drive.

Eh, I revise what I posted above and I think you need to make upwards of $2 million a year. Don't forget, decent bubble bath costs about $120 a bottle.

[mystree]

Where in SC, mystree66?

I'm currently in Gaston SC,just outside of Lexington.With our current income we do fine,bills are all paid and we are not lacking anything,so doubling our income we would be more than comforable. But SC has a lower cost of living unless you are in Charleston or Myrtle Beach.Its just about making what you have work.

[mystree]

Dinners out won't amount to all that much, but in Southern California Nordstroms is kind of ordinary. Upscale would be Barney's or Rodeo Drive.

I can't see paying $100 a plate for something when there are smaller restraunts that serve delicious dinners for a 5th of that,or paying outrageous prices for designer clothes when I could get the same look for much,much less elsewhere,it may not be top QUALITY but styles go out as quick as they come in.

And I don't need a BMW when a saturn or a chevy will do me just fine.

[jdhall1]

* Assume a dual income family with 2 school-aged children
* 4 bedroom, 2.5 bath, relatively new 3200 sq. foot house on 1/2 acre in desirable area with 10% down payment ($759,000 $5100 a month inc. taxes, insurance)
* 2 very nice but not extravagant cars - assume a BMW 3 series for hubby and a Lexus SUV for the wife ($1000 a month)
* Private school for both children and/or college funding plan ($25,000, $2083 a month)
* 2 vacations a year - 1 to visit family and 1 to a tropical island/nice resort ($7000, $583 a month)
* Decent home theater/stereo/game room ($375 a month)
* Football season tickets, theater season passes, or equivalent luxury item ($1800 a year, $150 a month)
* Country club and gym memberships for husband & wife ($5000 a year for unlimited golf at top 25 public course in town, $416 a month)
* Cell phone for all 4 family members ($95 a month)
* Dinner out 3 nights a week - 2 family restaurants and 1 upscale ($1680 a month)
* Saving or investing 10% of income ($1280 a month)
* Upscale shopping tendencies (Whole Foods, Nordstrom's, as opposed to big box retailers) ($850 a month)
* Charitable or religious giving based on personal preference ($5000 a year, $416 a month)

$166,500 after taxes, assuming 40% tax rate.You would need to make about $233,066 a year to afford that lifestyle in northern fairfield county,ct

[momof2dfw]

Easy. At least in my area. Actually in my immediate area most of that is achieved on one income. On overwhelming majority of the moms stay home, even AFTER all the kids are in school (including college). One other thing missing is that in my area most of the people that DO live like that own their own business or sold one. Most are college educated and while the area we are in is VERY desireable it is in an area most are not familiar with and automatically assume that decades old myths still apply. When in reality it is a very nice middle, upper-middle and upper class area. So the homes are priced w/in a reasonable range (my immediate neighborhood averages $115 sq ft). The majority of the more upper end homes were built in the last 5 years. One of the top 10 rated public golf courses in the state is in our community. So taking all of this into consideration some of the items you listed are provided BY the company (in a roundabout way the person still pays for it but just out of a different checkbook ). So, how does my area stack up?

Assume a dual income family with 2 school-aged children (One income family)
* 4 bedroom, 2.5 bath, relatively new 3200 sq. foot house on 1/2 acre in desirable area with 10% down payment (4 bed/4 bath/3 garage/formals/family/gameroom/media room/pool - 30% down, 15 year fixed purchased in the last 5 years)
* 2 very nice but not extravagant cars - assume a BMW 3 series for hubby and a Lexus SUV for the wife (Suburban - paid for, Chevy p/u - paid for and by the company, 06 BMW 3-Series $700 mo and hobby cars)
* Private school for both children and/or college funding plan (public school and college funds taken care of)
* 2 vacations a year - 1 to visit family and 1 to a tropical island/nice resort (2-3 vacations. No need to visit family as they all live locally. Spring Break -beach or skiing. Summer vacation)
* Decent home theater/stereo/game room (media room, theater style - and no, reality tv is NOT watched there. Sports mostly)
* Football season tickets, theater season passes, or equivalent luxury item (ice hockey season tickets. Paid for by company)
* Country club and gym memberships for husband & wife (no)
* Cell phone for all 4 family members (2, company provided)
* Dinner out 3 nights a week - 2 family restaurants and 1 upscale (it IS soccer season. I think I am on a first name basis at Chick-Fil-A . Try to eat lite meals for dinner most of the time).
* Saving or investing 10% of income (
* Upscale shopping tendencies (Whole Foods, Nordstrom's, as opposed to big box retailers) ("tendencies", yep, that is what I call it. I live in Dallas, the bargain shopping capital of the world. You do not buy ANYTHING clothes or home furnishings unless it is on sale or in a warehouse sale here).
* Charitable or religious giving based on personal preference (YES, first thing that comes out)!!!!!