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*LONG thread, my apologies in advance for the short-focused or time-restrained.
**The short version: considering Knoxville, TN or Greenville, SC to move to and looking for tips/comparisons. The 'What we're looking for' paragraph narrow this down for what we hope to find. Hopefully you'll be able to read all though. Thanks!
Where we're from:
I was born in Houston, live in San Antonio and lived in Texas all but one year of my life; Jackson, MS for a year was the exception. My mother is in Houston, as are most of my life long friends, with some close ones here in SA. Rest of my family is in AZ and CO. My wife's parents live here in SA for the last 30 years (from WV originally) and she's been here all her life. Her extended family is in WV, NC, VA areas. That's our background.
Who we are:
We love the social and political climate of Texas in general. We believe in Jesus and the Bible and want to be able to have a community of believers around us. SA is overall more liberal than the rest of the state (except Austin), and we find it just fine to have that close community and plenty of like minded people. We are conservative and favor small government with limited involvement and don't think we could live in a Portland or San Francisco area (could be wrong) as it would probably drive us crazy. However at the same time we tolerate the rights of anyone to have the beliefs they want and don't want to infringe upon anyone else's rights to believe what they want to or promote something different than what we prefer. We just want to live peacefully with more people that think and believe about life like we do than don't. That's our mindset, generalized. Wife is going to do a residency next year that will take us to another city (Houston, Atlanta, Salt Lake City, Philly are top spots for her residency) as SA doesn't have one for Physical Therapists. So that's what's got us in the market, amongst other things.
Work:
I'm in real estate, broker and appraiser. My wife is finishing her doctorate in physical therapy. So we are curious about the medical field/industry there and any info on jobs or accurate salaries for a PT. Also info on how the real estate market is there would be great. And if I were to lucky enough to get appraiser info (commercial, industrial, farm/ranch, not residential) that'd be a cherry on top, but no biggie if I can't get that specific.
Reasons to move: 1) The weather here is brutal in the summer months and we don't really get a true winter. That's one reason we are looking around at spots to move. I would be fine in Colorado, Utah, Montana, Idaho type weather, but my wife would not so we need something a bit more temperate. Some snow is ok, just don't want 6 months a year of frozen tundra. Also don't want obliterating summers. (SA gets to 100 most days for 3-4 months, Houston is even worse and with higher humidity). We are looking for more of the 4 seasons environment.
2) Live in a smaller, mid-sized city, and TX doesn't have a great alternative, for us; and I hate/loathe traffic. I know I'll never completely avoid it, but taking an hour to go 10-15 miles is (to me) insanity defined. Houston and Dallas/Ft. Worth are just too monstrous, and Austin fits a lot of what we're looking for, but the atmosphere is too liberal and the traffic 10 times worse than SA. However, that type of outdoorsy, healthy, laid back community is appealing.
3) SA is in a drought and it's been tough on outdoor activities for a multitude of reasons (Medina Lake about 30 minutes west of SA is 97% GONE for example). We've lost some water sports and the landscape is just, kinda ugly. We want the smoky mountain type of hills/mountains feel, so that's a big pull.
4) Another reason is to find a more cycling friendly city. The streets here in SA are in poor condition overall, most drivers are not very savvy or safe, there are not many dedicated bike lanes, and even if there were, tons of cars would be parked in them. I've tried. So being able to bike to work if I wanted or just take the future kiddos out for family things would be nice. We love the SA greenbelt, but it's very limited and doesn't really connect far through the city.
What we're looking for:
Covered some of this in the 2nd paragraph, but here are specifics we are hoping for. We want the mid sized city, with a strong outdoor factor and healthy atmosphere, that's more conservative than liberal (generally speaking), with moderate but distinct seasons, and where cost of living isn't through the roof. A lot to ask, right?
We don't care about fancy cuisine, tons of money and ritzy places, or big airports (we drive for travel mostly) or beaches. We prefer laid back, cultured, rustic natural places with a history and a touch of modern. Love small towns with little main streets and antiques. (As an example, Asheville NC would fit a lot of things, but it's too small and possibly too liberal from what we've gathered; but we would love to visit there plenty). Not huge on plays/theater/opera/museums. We love trail running, road and mountain biking, rivers/lakes water activities, and camping.
Places of interest:
I would move to Boise, Salt Lake City, parts of Colorado, Spokane, or Montana in a heartbeat; possibly Arizona. But considering my wife and our marriage, those aren't options and that's ok.
Top Spots (this is where we need more help):
We have done a lot of online research ourselves, spent way too much time on zillow/trulia/realtor playing the hypothetical house game, and even more than that on maps and street views getting a feel for things as much as possible from a distance. 2 spots at the top of our current list are Knoxville, TN and Greenville, SC.
So I've spent a lot of your time as you read about 2 strangers, to give you background on us so we can get opinions on how either city would work for us and what your experiences are with each or both, if possible. Thanks for any advice, experiences, comparisons, or other location suggestions to dig into. I have a work trip in August 2014 to Nashville, and we are going to spend an extra 2 days (can't afford more sadly) to drive to and through Knoxville and Greenville to get a super small snippet of each place. Would love the top few places to spend probably...3-4 hours in, for each city. Thanks kindly in advance for any help.
Have you given any thought to the Winston-Salem, NC area? You would have access to excellent medical facilities, an attractive real estate market, easy ride to southwest VA, Roanoke, etc., the Blue Ridge Mountains, also to Raleigh-Durham, Greensboro .... plenty to do and see.
Wife is going to do a residency next year that will take us to another city (Houston, Atlanta, Salt Lake City, Philly are top spots for her residency) as SA doesn't have one for Physical Therapists. So that's what's got us in the market, amongst other things.
Sorry for being obtuse. So why Knoxville or Greenville? Won't you go where it is best for her to do her residency?
In that vein, this is the best in the city. I've had personal experience here with my child. Fabulous.
QuilterChick:
No we hadn't yet. Liked that Greenville and Knoxville seemed a little less connected and closer to mtns. But, we will check it out, thanks for tip!
hiknapster:
No worries. We have to move for her residency, and to one of those cities listed; so yes, we are going to move somewhere for a year that neither of us want to stay in permanently, solely for the benefit of her career. Residency is only a year long. This is what has us motivated to move somewhere else (instead of back to SA) since we are already starting the process b/c of the residency. Thanks for the links!
It seems like you're only going to be in the new location for approximately a year then will be moving again. If so, I'd just stay where you are. It's a lot of hassle for little benefit.
I think either choice would be okay. Greenville may be slightly more conservative than Knoxville. TN has no state income tax - SC does. There should be plenty of opportunity for the outdoor activities within an thirty minutes to an hour of each city.
Both places are going to have a similar climate that's not as oppressive as TX. The economy in both cities is better than most of the rest of their respective states, but neither state overall is as healthy as TX, and both states have been lagging the national recovery.
I would give the edge on shopping to Greenville. I also prefer Greenville's very new and up to date downtown. I'd also give the edge on the restaurant scene to Greenville. Knoxville has the university for a sports edge. Greenville's growth has been more driven by the foreign auto industry, while Knoxville has no one dominant industry and is a bit more diversified. Greenville is also closer to Atlanta and Charlotte for big city things, when and if you need them. Knoxville is still farther away from Nashville than Greenville is from Atlanta (close call) or Charlotte.
I prefer Greenville, but both areas are somewhat similar.
Emigrations:
Thanks for the info, especially on economic differences. Have you lived in either? What you've said matches what we've concluded thus far in our efforts, so that's nice that we're on the same page. Ideally we could take 2 weeks off and live in each for a week, but that's just not feasible unfortunately. Gonna have to have some faith in this one; a lot actually.
The residency is going to happen and we will have to move to H-town, Philly, SLC, or ATL for one year and one year only, and then we want to move on. Since we have an itch to move already, the initial and temporary move for the residency prompted us to say, hey let's just have an adventure for a year somewhere and then put down roots somewhere new.
I initially found Greenville from Outdoor Magazine ranking it the #2 outdoor city in US last year and had never heard of it before. It looks great for lots of reasons, although it shocked friends here that we were interested in South Carolina. Gville's downtown does look superb and city biking seems more integrated. We kept searching (don't want to put all eggs in one basket, also want to be flexible and find best spot) and like Knoxville a lot too. Both cities on paper are similar. Guess we're looking for things we maybe missed? How the day to day life is, general attitudes of people in each city and how jobs/careers would do in either. More personal info and less demographic, if that makes sense.
I'm from about a hundred miles east of Knoxville and have spent a lot of time there over the years. I've probably spent at least a weekend a month in Greenville (probably at least two in summer) from last spring until I moved about six weeks ago due to the poor regional job market. I also lived in the upstate off and on several years ago when I had a girlfriend at a nearby college.
Even though I was closer to Knoxville than Greenville by about fifty miles, I seldom went to Knoxville except for a Vols event or unless I was visiting someone who lived in Knoxville. For me, there was nothing in Knoxville that I wouldn't drive the extra hour to Greenville for.
Knoxville's downtown has seen improvement, and while it's certainly not bad, it's nowhere near as nice as Greenville's, though I can't think of any other city roughly that size that has as nice of a downtown as Greenville. Greenville also happens to be closer to Asheville and the WNC mountains. I much prefer WNC to the oversold tourist traps around the Smokies, but there are still unspoiled places around Knoxville.
Greenville is my second favorite city in the South except for Charleston, which has gotten too much buzz and notoriety the last few years.
Not to mention the ever expanding amount of shopping we have downtown and creeping outward. Same for the restaurant scene.
Sadly, I can't find an inclusive list of all shops in the downtown area. Of course, you said that wasn't your focus, anyway, but here's a couple of lists for restaurants.
I think Greenville's downtown is pretty, especially around the river, but Knoxville's downtown is quite charming and vibrant. Although the south side of the river has to be developed, we do have Volunteer Landing, including Outdoor Knoxville and the Outdoor Knoxville Adventure Center, which seems to be in your wheelhouse.
Also, Ijams Nature Center. LOTS of outdoor activities, including biking and hiking.
I'm originally from Greenville, and have lived in Houston for the last 8 years. You're absolutely right about the summertime weather...the summers generally last a month or 2 longer here in SE TX than they do in either Greenville or Knoxville, and the heat/humidity is about 2-3 notches worse here than in those places.
I really think either place would check most of your boxes, though I'm biased toward Greenville obviously. To me, in addition to the weather and scenery, it has a lot of things going for it:
- Centralized location: 30-60 minutes to the Blue Ridge Mountains and Asheville, 2 hours to Atlanta or Charlotte if you want a weekend getaway to the big city, 3.5 hours to the jewel that is Charleston and some of the best beaches in America.
- Good economic base: home to Michelin's North American HQ and a large automotive presence with BMW, among other things.
- Educational opportunities: good universities with Clemson and Furman nearby. Both are generally conservative in outlook, not nearly as liberal a presence as the University of Texas, for instance. Of course, each has a good selection of culture/arts/sports/etc. that you would expect (though I'm a fan of clemson's rival in-state school, that's a topic for another thread).
- Lots of outdoor activities nearby, including hiking and watersports. Side note: the many area lakes are nice and full thanks to a ton of rain during 2013.
That's going to be a whirlwind trip in August...it's a bit of a haul from Nashville over through Knoxville and down to Greenville and back. Safe travels!
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