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Boise is a great small town but it is in fact, a town. I may grow into a city and you could get in now but it does lack amenities and is quite isolated.
Right, Boise with a city population of nearly 225,000 and a metro population of around 710,000 is just a town.
Boise is isolated as is any major city in the Intermountain West and Boise does not lack "amenities".
Last edited by Syringaloid; 04-09-2018 at 09:20 AM..
Reason: typo
Ten years ago, I would have said Denver, hands down, as I lived there for several years and loved it. Now, the value just isn't there, so would consider WY, and MT, but understand the limitations the Count stated. There are no easy answer anymore.
I recall Boise was touted as "the new Denver" a few years back. That sort of aspiration usually doesn't work out as planned.
New Mexico tends to scare people away because it is misunderstood and under the radar (not new and not Mexico); is very mixed culturally, racially and ethnically; has an odd economy (Los Alamos and Sandia Labs, Indian casinos, military, the tourist industry, space travel, and artsy-fartsy); and a perception of being dangerous (Breaking Bad + ABQ property crime stats). It is not for everybody and either you love it or hate it. Those that love it are happy that those that hate it don't settle here but there is a cost to that smugness. The economy was heavily reliant on government contracts for science, development, parklands, and military spending and Federal money has dried up to a large extent and not much has happened to fill the gap. There is tremendous unfulfilled potential but a reluctance to change.
Colorado Springs is too stroller moms/white/military for my taste.
I felt the same way for the first few years I lived here in CO. I felt like Colorado Springs represented everything I "detested" (hyper-suburban living, traffic, some political things, etc). We did check out Colorado Springs on our first/only CO scouting trip, but we felt that Denver was a better value (we never really thought about moving to the Springs, realistically).
My opinion was slow to change, but it did indeed change. I went down there for work a lot, and at first, I would just confirm my existing opinions for myself, and I always convinced myself that Denver was just simply on a whole other level, and that I was lucky to be there instead of the Springs.
I remember going down there very early in my poker days, and meeting some very cool people, they just seemed different in a good way compared to the folks I encountered in Denver. I remember a ton of trips down or through there, without even giving a second thought to stopping.
However, over the last 5 or 6 years, Colorado Springs has become one of our get out of town destinations. We'll go down there for a weekend at least twice a year now. Denver is very jading if you're here for too long, and getting to experience a more "normal" city/town is very cleansing and sobering. In Colorado Springs, people work, go home, and have their little hobbies. In Denver, people are busy working/climbing the ladder, sitting in traffic, and being cool/some sort of scene (yeah, I'm extending things here, but you get the idea). Colorado Springs is a much slower pace, everything is more reasonable, people are much nicer/laid back, the weather is usually nicer, it feels (and is) much closer to the mountains....it lives more of the idea that the rest of the country thinks Denver is.
It isn't without its problems. The very religious/conservative/family contingent is there, but I don't think it represents the entire city (just the north/east sides). The city funds itself very poorly (it has had problems with potholes, and even keeping the street lights on). It's losing its AAA baseball team to San Antonio, and is getting replaced by a Rookie-ball team . It also gets a lot more in the way of severe T-storms than Denver does. It too has had a COL increase, but it's still affordable compared to Denver and NoCo. It isn't terribly diverse internationally, but it does have Latinos, and a higher black population than most people expect.
The west and central parts of town are pretty awesome IMO, and even has types of neighborhoods that you cannot find ANYWHERE in metro Denver (i.e. Cheyenne Mountain/near the Broadmoor/etc). It also lacks the super-yuppie/hipster thing that is so en vogue these days (it has completely eaten up Denver ), and that is refreshing. We've briefly given thoughts to moving down there, but figure we might as well move out of CO if we are to do that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmanshouse
I will say, Spokane's downtown (outside of it being scary at night) was pretty robust for a city of its size. And visually appealing.
Reminded me a little bit of Madison WI, which is a town I love (I recommend you visit there if you haven't).
I did a google street view of Boise, and unfortunately, was not impressed. It's tough when you are used to Chicago.
Yeah, Spokane does have a nice downtown, the view from I-90 and from the lower South Hill (like by the hospitals) is pretty nice.
I have not been to Madison, but I have been to Milwaukee, Racine, and Kenosha. I've never really been that curious about Madison, and I've always wondered why myself. I'm sure I'll get there someday.
Like I mentioned before, I've only been to Boise once, and while I do remember it, even looking at pics/streetview/housing/etc., it doesn't do anything for me.
Have you ever given thought to Sacramento? I know it's in CA, but just forget that for a moment.
I'd go with New Mexico. There's more of a sense of permanence and stability there due to the stagnant population growth (i.e. mostly natives, not so many transplant yuppies). The Native American and old-school Hispanic culture is also an enriching and interesting presence, and the scenery (both natural and man-made) is stunning.
New Mexico tends to scare people away because it is misunderstood and under the radar (not new and not Mexico); is very mixed culturally, racially and ethnically; has an odd economy (Los Alamos and Sandia Labs, Indian casinos, military, the tourist industry, space travel, and artsy-fartsy); and a perception of being dangerous (Breaking Bad + ABQ property crime stats). It is not for everybody and either you love it or hate it. Those that love it are happy that those that hate it don't settle here but there is a cost to that smugness. The economy was heavily reliant on government contracts for science, development, parklands, and military spending and Federal money has dried up to a large extent and not much has happened to fill the gap. There is tremendous unfulfilled potential but a reluctance to change.
I lived in Arizona for 7 years and loved exploring all throughout New Mexico and tying into what you said, while the state is huge, I think 5th largest, it's population is just over 2 million, making it 45th in population density. Because of its lower population, as compared to UT, CO and AZ, it makes it definitely feel different than those states, even though it shares many of the same physical attributes as those states. I think of New Mexico as a hidden gem.
Oregon is harder to live in than I think it needs to be. Unemployment is typically pretty high outside of Portland as well. The western half of the state is very beautiful, which eases the pain some. Unless I wanted a relatively peaceful life, in a very beautiful setting, and wanted to pay a little more for it than I probably should, I would steer clear from Oregon. Washington gets you so much more, for only a little more.
Washington is probably my favorite state in the union. I just feel like the state does a lot right. Tacoma is going to pop off over the next 10 years (this shouldn't be news though). WA isn't a good bang for the buck, but you do get a lot for what you pay IMO.
See, when I research this stuff on where to move it's this that confuses me. I see a lot of people saying very similar things as yourself. But when I look it up I see that the unemployment ratios for Eugene, Salem and Portland, OR are at 3.8%, 4.1% and 3.4% respectively. National average is 4.1%. Washington state overall is at 4.5% and Oregon is 4.1%.
I like the idea of moving to either OR or WA. The commute between Tacoma and Seattle would probably be a problem so the job would have to be there in Tacoma. Alternatively, I also like the idea of living in Salem and working near there. Commute to Portland also looks bad.
See, when I research this stuff on where to move it's this that confuses me. I see a lot of people saying very similar things as yourself. But when I look it up I see that the unemployment ratios for Eugene, Salem and Portland, OR are at 3.8%, 4.1% and 3.4% respectively. National average is 4.1%. Washington state overall is at 4.5% and Oregon is 4.1%.
I like the idea of moving to either OR or WA. The commute between Tacoma and Seattle would probably be a problem so the job would have to be there in Tacoma. Alternatively, I also like the idea of living in Salem and working near there. Commute to Portland also looks bad.
Portland has some of the worst traffic in the country IMO. Salem is in a similar position as Tacoma (but is much smaller, less of a "city"), and frustrated Portlanders should be more looking to it if the COL/traffic finally get to be too much (they aren't, nearly enough).
I'm sure employers are looking at Tacoma as well. There is a train between Seattle and Tacoma now (Amtrak too), but it looks like it takes an hour in each direction. There has been some southward movement out of Seattle as it's just now starting to be realized that living in Seattle itself (even when you factor in its amenities) is more expensive than it needs to be, and probably isn't worth it in many cases.
My comments on the unemployment story were more historical/taken as overall/typical, not currently, necessarily.
If it were me, I'd look at one of the outlying cities (Tacoma, Olympia, Salem, Eugene, etc), see if I could make it work there, and enjoy the big cities on weekends.
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. It also gets a lot more in the way of severe T-storms than Denver does. It too has had a COL increase, but it's still affordable compared to Denver and NoCo. It isn't terribly diverse internationally, but it does have Latinos, and a higher black population than most people expect. 
), and that is refreshing. We've briefly given thoughts to moving down there, but figure we might as well move out of CO if we are to do that. 
