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View Poll Results: Do you think foreign workers:
Lower wages of US workers in the tech sector. 8 57.14%
Lower wages of US workers who have a Bachelor's or higher. 4 28.57%
Lower wages of US workers in service industry or unskilled work. 7 50.00%
Increase wage of US workers. 2 14.29%
Make corporations richer and the middle and lower classes poorer by exploiting Americans. 8 57.14%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-12-2006, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Orlando, FL - used to be nice, a dump now. Anyone speak English down here???
340 posts, read 332,087 times
Reputation: 77

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SKIL Bill Thwarted—For Now

FYI: an H-1B visa is a visa that lets foreign workers with a Bachelor's degree (often unverifiable or from a "fake university") or higher to come into the US permanently. These workers often work for as little as a 1/3 of the pay of a US worker, depreciating and lowering the wages of US professionals. After all, if a company can bring a professional from overseas for 1/3 of what an American make, why not hire the foreign worker? It is cheaper than the US professional... therefore, Americans are either out of work or forced to take jobs paying close to nothing, impoverishing our society and making the rich richer and increasing corporate profits. Currently, we import and outsource internally 60,000 American jobs every year. Corporations are lobbying Congress to increase that to 300,000 American jobs given to foreign workers who will permanently come to the USA every year!!!

Last minute frenzy on Capitol Hill to pass prized legislation would provide opportunity for members to sneak in provisions increasing H-1B visas and employment-based green cards. Indeed, early in the week Senator Cornyn was negotiating with numerous Senators to secure votes for a revised version of his so-called "SKIL bill". The revised language would have issued as many as 300,000 H-1B visas and as many as 90,000 visas for nurses and physical therapists. It would have also created a new F-4 visa for foreign students enrolling in graduate programs for math and sciences, allowing them to stay in the country and apply for a green card upon receiving their degree.

Senator Cornyn's effort to import foreign high-tech workers was met with resistance as a handful of Senators blocked the effort. Most went against this measure because they oppose importing foreign workers who will compete with American workers and depress wages. These Senators got your phone calls demanding that they fight this bill and went to bat for the American worker.

Unfortunately, other Senators were reportedly willing to drop the issue of high-tech visas because they saw the opportunity to pass even broader legislation in the new Congress and get credit for it. Thus, while the push to increase high-tech and employer-based visas was shut down this Congress, there is a strong likelihood that Congress will revisit this issue next year.

We all need to fight and secure our jobs in America. Like it wasn't enough that corporate America is exporting US jobs, like call centers, tech support, manufacturing, and others overseas, now they want to import cheap labor into the USA and lower American wages even more!! I will keep this Thread updated with info on new happenings or you can go to NumbersUSA.com or fairus.org for info. We need to make sure we secure not just our future, but the future of our children as well.

Please contribute info as needed. Rich corporate folks, don't waste your time posting on this thread; This is for the US worker, the middle class Bachelor's degree person, the children who will be competing for US jobs in the next few years.

Thank you,

Chris

Last edited by Christian11; 12-12-2006 at 11:29 AM.. Reason: Typo. Ooops.
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:52 PM
 
1,735 posts, read 4,231,789 times
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Back in the 90’s every IT magazine had numerous articles about the need to increase the H-1B numbers because there weren’t enough skilled IT workers. What they didn’t say is that these “skilled” workers were being paid 2/3rds less than skilled American workers.
I remember reading these articles and discussing them at IT user group meetings. Every meeting there were a lot of skilled Americans that couldn’t find work, all the while companies were petitioning congress to increase the H-1B quotas because they couldn’t find workers.
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Old 12-12-2006, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Missouri
6,047 posts, read 21,662,071 times
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There's a huge shortage of nurses and physical therapists as well. I think the gov't should instead encourage more people to go to school to be RNs and PTs, through scholarship programs and student loan forgiveness. But unfortunately, foreigners have to be brought in for these jobs. You can't run hospitals, doctors offices, or rehabs without nurses and PTs. People will die.
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Old 12-13-2006, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Orlando, FL - used to be nice, a dump now. Anyone speak English down here???
340 posts, read 332,087 times
Reputation: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by christina0001 View Post
There's a huge shortage of nurses and physical therapists as well. I think the gov't should instead encourage more people to go to school to be RNs and PTs, through scholarship programs and student loan forgiveness. But unfortunately, foreigners have to be brought in for these jobs. You can't run hospitals, doctors offices, or rehabs without nurses and PTs. People will die.
Really? My aunt is a PT and she has 12 years of experience, graduated, and licensed in Maryland from a great accredited school. She says it is sooo hard to get a Physical Therapy job these days, it is unreal. Her old friend from college has been laid off two hospitals and replaced with a cheaper H-1B worker.

We have enough professionals in the US right now, rich corporations just don't want to hire them. Outsourcing these jobs internally is easier and cheaper.
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Old 12-13-2006, 03:59 PM
 
Location: N.W. Austin.
802 posts, read 2,610,683 times
Reputation: 546
Instead of blaming the H1-B visa and it's beneficiaries, maybe it's time to look at the functionally illiterate liberal arts college graduates churned out of US campuses and ask if those institutions and their products are serving the nation? Look at the enrollment numbers for engineering and science subjects and ask yourself where are the US born and bred graduates that should be first in line for those opportunities.
The problem is a sense of entitlement that's creeped into the nation's psyche where people think that hard work isn't necessary anymore, it will just happen, if you wish it so... We've reached a point where the police are enforcing truancy laws and punishing the parents instead of the students that NEED the education. About as half-assed an approach as it gets!

I'll vent my spleen in a minute!
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Old 12-13-2006, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Missouri
6,047 posts, read 21,662,071 times
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If your aunt needs PT work, tell her to come up here to NJ. My office will give me a $1000 bonus for bringing in a PT/OT/ST/RN for 6 months. The rehabs, nursing homes, and hospitals here are always shorthanded, and especially for physical therapists. Tell your aunt's friend to drive north a bit, she'll have no trouble finding work.

Local classified ads from 12/3 lists 29 RN positions and 9 therapist positions.
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Old 12-14-2006, 10:20 PM
 
Location: Orlando, FL - used to be nice, a dump now. Anyone speak English down here???
340 posts, read 332,087 times
Reputation: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spookmeister View Post
Instead of blaming the H1-B visa and it's beneficiaries, maybe it's time to look at the functionally illiterate liberal arts college graduates churned out of US campuses and ask if those institutions and their products are serving the nation? Look at the enrollment numbers for engineering and science subjects and ask yourself where are the US born and bred graduates that should be first in line for those opportunities.
The problem is a sense of entitlement that's creeped into the nation's psyche where people think that hard work isn't necessary anymore, it will just happen, if you wish it so... We've reached a point where the police are enforcing truancy laws and punishing the parents instead of the students that NEED the education. About as half-assed an approach as it gets!

I'll vent my spleen in a minute!
Dude, I am not a liberal, don't agree with the welfare state, entitledments, and etc. I do not believe anyone is pretty much entitled to anything, other than a fair opportunity to go to college, WORK HARD, and get somewhere in life. What I do not approve is corporations creating "open border" policies to inflate the US workforce and deflate wages.

This guy we know, Nick, lives in Cincinnati, OH (not the sticks, a major city with one of the world's largest corps, Procter & Gamble). Has a BS in computer science from ITT, an excellent resume. He has even worked for my stepdad doing freelance work last year. HE CANNOT GET A COMPUTER JOB. The companies are telling him they can hire someone else for 1/2 of his asking wage. His asking wage?? Oh only $45k. Granted, he has 6 years of experience, some even working for MBNA (the credit card company) for over 1 year. He has awesome references, I have called to check his references at his request.. all clean. He was told by the company they would only pay $23- $25k a year.... now you call this an incentive to go to college?? Come on, man!! Why do you think the pay is that low? Because they can hire these H-1B workers for pennies on the dollar.

The companies do not WANT to hire US workers because the aliens get paid 1/2 of what US workers get paid!! Is that too much to ask that we restrain this practice to give US workers a chance to get a job. I think not!!

At 300 million people, we basically have a segment of our population that is basically "not needed", is marginalized. Check the raids that just took place at Swift in CO, GA, MI, TX.. 1,300 illegals today. Now you want to bet that the salaries for US workers will have to go up to attarct new legal workers? Of course, that is called supply and demand.

It is time Americans wake up andtake charge of their country and stop the corporations from running the show.
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Old 12-15-2006, 08:35 AM
 
1,735 posts, read 4,231,789 times
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Some of what Spookmeister said about college graduates being “functionally illiterate” is true, but most of the IT workers that are being replaced with H-1B workers are not. Most of them have been working in IT long before Microsoft took over and colleges began teaching something other than punch cards and cobal programming. If you look at the most successful people in IT you will find they either have no college to they dropped out.
The US is what it is because of our people and their ability to create, improve and advance technologies. I’m not saying that some of these H-1B workers didn’t help to advance these technologies, but they surely wouldn’t have been able to do anything in their own country without the help of US companies.

The smart college students begin their studies with the goal of a job at the end. If they interview some of these displaced workers it’s no secrete why fewer students are studying fields that are being heavily outsourced to foreign workers.

As far as I know Microsoft didn’t get it’s start using foreign workers, but they are now outsourcing many of the jobs previously held by US workers. This is a trend that many US companies have been following and I believe it will backfire when the US is no longer producing innovators and only service workers.

Just look at any of the so called “third world” countries that are now making the products that the US once did and there is always one common denominator. They are making products that the US designs and the US instructs how to make. Right now there are still people in the US that design and create.

What happens when there are no longer any innovators left? Is Mexico going to all of the sudden step in and become an industrialized country like the US once was? What about India? Do we really want China to be the only country making our products?
I have worked for large companies for most of my life and they all say, “our employees are our most important asset”. All the while using layoffs as their first cost cutting measure.
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Old 12-18-2006, 10:19 PM
 
Location: Orlando, FL - used to be nice, a dump now. Anyone speak English down here???
340 posts, read 332,087 times
Reputation: 77
Default Excellent response

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedNC View Post
Some of what Spookmeister said about college graduates being “functionally illiterate” is true, but most of the IT workers that are being replaced with H-1B workers are not. Most of them have been working in IT long before Microsoft took over and colleges began teaching something other than punch cards and cobal programming. If you look at the most successful people in IT you will find they either have no college to they dropped out.
The US is what it is because of our people and their ability to create, improve and advance technologies. I’m not saying that some of these H-1B workers didn’t help to advance these technologies, but they surely wouldn’t have been able to do anything in their own country without the help of US companies.

The smart college students begin their studies with the goal of a job at the end. If they interview some of these displaced workers it’s no secrete why fewer students are studying fields that are being heavily outsourced to foreign workers.

As far as I know Microsoft didn’t get it’s start using foreign workers, but they are now outsourcing many of the jobs previously held by US workers. This is a trend that many US companies have been following and I believe it will backfire when the US is no longer producing innovators and only service workers.

Just look at any of the so called “third world” countries that are now making the products that the US once did and there is always one common denominator. They are making products that the US designs and the US instructs how to make. Right now there are still people in the US that design and create.

What happens when there are no longer any innovators left? Is Mexico going to all of the sudden step in and become an industrialized country like the US once was? What about India? Do we really want China to be the only country making our products?
I have worked for large companies for most of my life and they all say, “our employees are our most important asset”. All the while using layoffs as their first cost cutting measure.
The United States is in a very dangerous path right now, both economically and socially. The US cannot compete with the 3rd world in anything. We compete in the US with the wages of foreign workers on any level. Our economy is basically a group of large corporations that control a disproportionate amount of power in Washington and have a almost destructive desire for profit (you are hearing this from a moderate Rep).

On the other hand, we have a middle class that appeared after WWII. The middle class rose above poverty because people were needed to do jobs in the USA and there was no surplus of workers to lower wages. Currently, American large corporations are pushing Congress to almost quadruple the yearly # of H-1B workers (BA or higher workers that work permanently in the US to work for 1/2 of what US workers make). Why do corps want this so bad? Because they want to pay foreign workers 1/2 of what US workers make. WE currently HAVE plenty of US graduates available, but the coprs want cheap labor, so we take jobs away from American college grads and give to foreingers. Isn't this effectively outsourcing US jobs and college grads to overseas workers? How is this good for the middle class Americans or the poor Americans that go to college??

Then we have the issue of masses of people flocking to the USA across the Mexico-US border. These are sometimes disease-ridden, poor, very often illeterate individuals who drain an unrealistic amount of resources from government services. The illegal aliens drain hospital care, they get free surgeries and free medical care (something that US citizens and legal aliens do not get), their kids enjoy free public schools, the illegals enjoy tax-free incomes, send most of their incomes to their home countries, and cause car accidents driving without licenses, and they of course, suck off a lot in welfare/Social Security, taking benefits away from US seniors and disabled individuals.

The illegal alien group is just as bad as the H-1B group. They take away so many open jobs that it creates a "surplus" of workers. By filling in too many jobs, the salary market for ALL non-college educated jobs go down. It follows the rule of "supply and demand". Too many workers in the job market cause wages to go down, while lack of workers cause wages to go up.

Overall, Immigration, both legally and illegaly, depress US wages a lot. That is why it is important to have strict quotas for H-1B professional workers and secure the US borders and punish companies (like Swift and Walmart) who take advantage of illegal alien labor.

Comments appreciated!!
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Old 12-19-2006, 01:42 AM
 
911 posts, read 3,250,367 times
Reputation: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian11 View Post
SKIL Bill Thwarted—For Now

FYI: an H-1B visa is a visa that lets foreign workers with a Bachelor's degree (often unverifiable or from a "fake university") or higher to come into the US permanently. These workers often work for as little as a 1/3 of the pay of a US worker, depreciating and lowering the wages of US professionals. After all, if a company can bring a professional from overseas for 1/3 of what an American make, why not hire the foreign worker? It is cheaper than the US professional... therefore, Americans are either out of work or forced to take jobs paying close to nothing, impoverishing our society and making the rich richer and increasing corporate profits. Currently, we import and outsource internally 60,000 American jobs every year. Corporations are lobbying Congress to increase that to 300,000 American jobs given to foreign workers who will permanently come to the USA every year!!!
[...]

Chris
Great Post Chris ...

Last edited by Yac; 12-19-2006 at 02:27 AM..
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