Why isn’t the Midwest and Northeast combined? (fit in, vs.)
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I'm not so sure about that. Most of the early white settlers of Iowa were descended from the Mid-Atlantic, a region with a large German, Dutch and Swedish population for much of the colonial period.
Aren't the Mid-Atlantic states northeastern though? Historically NJ, NY, and PA were considered Mid-Atlantic. And people move around. It's not like Iowa did not have people moving in from other parts of the midwest until the Germans settled into the state. I have ancestors that moved to Iowa from Ohio before their offspring later settled in Minnesota. And if I go further back, that lineage goes back to New York and New England. And this actually applies to more than one lineage of my ancestry.
Aren't the Mid-Atlantic states northeastern though? Historically NJ, NY, and PA were considered Mid-Atlantic. And people move around. It's not like Iowa did not have people moving in from other parts of the midwest until the Germans settled into the state. I have ancestors that moved to Iowa from Ohio before their offspring later settled in Minnesota. And if I go further back, that lineage goes back to New York and New England. And this actually applies to more than one lineage of my ancestry.
The Mid-Atlantic and New England states might both be lumped into the Northeast region today, but for most of their history, they were completely different from one another.
German ancestry is incredibly overstated by people who live in Iowa and other states in the Midwest. Usually, if Americans have one or two grandparents with German ancestry, then they classify themselves as German-American and completely ignore or disregard their English ancestry, which might be greater than their German ancestry. The same phenomenon occurs with Americans who have Irish or Italian ancestry. Usually, one of the above prevails over English ancestry, especially in the Northeast.
I don't agree with this. An incredible number of the people I grew up with and their parents grew up speaking German at their parents or grandparents homes )it was the 2nd most spoken non English language in the U.S. pre WW2). Lots of Welsh, Finnish, Norwegian and Scandanavians as well. Totally different make up than the New England states.
I don't agree with this. An incredible number of the people I grew up with and their parents grew up speaking German at their parents or grandparents homes )it was the 2nd most spoken non English language in the U.S. pre WW2). Lots of Welsh, Finnish, Norwegian and Scandanavians as well. Totally different make up than the New England states.
The northeast also received a bunch of European immigrants. Not exactly the same groups but I don't see what makes this so different from parts of the northeast.
Buffalo is more like St. Paul than Boston or NYC. St Louis has similarities with Baltimore. Milwaukee isn't that different from Rochester or Buffalo. Same with Cleveland. Minnesotans consider ourselves northerners. It makes no sense for only the small amount of states in the northeastern corner of the country to be the only northern states but the South can range from TX to VA.
I don't disagree with that. I personally don't consider Texas a part of the South (many disagree with this point, hah). I've heard western NY is more akin to the Midwest. I tried to subdivide a lot of my groups. I would divide these even further, but just generally.
I don't agree with this. An incredible number of the people I grew up with and their parents grew up speaking German at their parents or grandparents homes )it was the 2nd most spoken non English language in the U.S. pre WW2). Lots of Welsh, Finnish, Norwegian and Scandanavians as well. Totally different make up than the New England states.
The difference between the Midwest and Northeast is that people of settler stock in the Midwest heavily intermarried with the German and Scandinavian immigrants who arrived after the Civil War because Northern Europeans are mostly Protestant, similar to the Yankee settlers. Additionally, many Yankee sons died in the Civil War, which meant that many Yankee daughters were left with no choice, but to intermarry with the newer arrivals, especially since men or, more specifically, husbands/fathers were necessary for the survival of women and children on the (rather unforgiving) Midwestern or, at that point, Northwestern frontier. People had no time and/or reason to fuss over ancestry/ethnicity in Wisconsin c.1870. Accordingly, it is relatively common to meet people in the Midwest who have at least one grandparent primarily of settler stock.
People of settler stock in New England have been highly concentrated in the backcountry for many generations now. In this context, the backcountry includes all of northern New England, as well as rural southern New England, especially eastern Connecticut and western Rhode Island. The Irish, Italian, Portuguese, French-Canadian and other immigrants who arrived in the 19th and early 20th centuries were devoutly Roman Catholic (or Eastern Orthodox) and, with the exception of French-Canadians, primarily settled in heavily urbanized cities (e.g., Boston, Providence, Hartford, Springfield, Worcester, Fall River, New Bedford, etc.). Even though Catholics and Protestants rarely intermarried to begin with, the Yankees had a separate existence in the hinterlands, which resulted in little cross-pollination between them and the newer arrivals.
Interestingly, in New York, the Yankees did not intermarry with the Dutch and German settlers at first because the early Yorkers were considered by many Yankees to be idle and slovenly. However, when Irish Catholic settlers began immigrating to America and settling along the Erie Canal, the sociocultural dynamic in New York shifted. By that point, the Yankees had already lived in New York for 1-2 generations and were beginning to find commonality with the early Yorkers. Eventually, the Yankees and early Yorkers realized they had more in common with each other than they previously thought, which allowed for alignment between the groups in an effort to protect their homeland, first against the invasion of Catholic immigrants and, shortly thereafter, the Southern cause, which led to unprecedented civil unrest.
Last edited by Outer_Bluegrass; 04-29-2023 at 07:32 PM..
The difference between the Midwest and Northeast is that people of settler stock in the Midwest heavily intermarried with the German and Scandinavian immigrants who arrived after the Civil War because Northern Europeans are mostly Protestant, similar to the Yankee settlers. Additionally, many Yankee sons died in the Civil War, which meant that many Yankee daughters were left with no choice, but to intermarry with the newer arrivals, especially since men or, more specifically, husbands/fathers were necessary for the survival of women and children on the (rather unforgiving) Midwestern or, at that point, Northwestern frontier. People had no time and/or reason to fuss over ancestry/ethnicity in Wisconsin c.1870. Accordingly, it is relatively common to meet people in the Midwest who have at least one grandparent primarily of settler stock.
People of settler stock in New England have been highly concentrated in the backcountry for many generations now. In this context, the backcountry includes all of northern New England, as well as rural southern New England, especially eastern Connecticut and western Rhode Island. The Irish, Italian, Portuguese, French-Canadian and other immigrants who arrived in the 19th and early 20th centuries were devoutly Roman Catholic (or Eastern Orthodox) and, with the exception of French-Canadians, primarily settled in heavily urbanized cities (e.g., Boston, Providence, Hartford, Springfield, Worcester, Fall River, New Bedford, etc.). Even though Catholics and Protestants rarely intermarried to begin with, the Yankees had a separate existence in the hinterlands, which resulted in little cross-pollination between them and the newer arrivals.
Interestingly, in New York, the Yankees did not intermarry with the Dutch and German settlers at first because the early Yorkers were considered by many Yankees to be idle and slovenly. However, when Irish Catholic settlers began immigrating to America and settling along the Erie Canal, the sociocultural dynamic in New York shifted. By that point, the Yankees had already lived in New York for 1-2 generations and were beginning to find commonality with the early Yorkers. Eventually, the Yankees and early Yorkers realized they had more in common with each other than they previously thought, which allowed for alignment between the groups in an effort to protect their homeland, first against the invasion of Catholic immigrants and, shortly thereafter, the Southern cause, which led to unprecedented civil unrest.
I can trace my Minnesota side of the family back to the Dutch settlers in NY, the English colonists in the northeast and Mid-Atlantic, the Germans, and the Norwegians. This idea that all or most white Midwesterners are predominately or completely of recent German descent never made sense to me. My maternal grandfather, who was Minnesotan through and through, is predominantly of settler stock with no recent German or Norwegian ancestry. He does have some Dutch ancestry which traces to back to NY however. My maternal grandmother's side has a lot more of the German and Scandinavian ancestry mixed in with settler stock.
Historically, VA was southern, yes. But not anymore.
LOL it is to me, but I guess people see what they want to see.
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