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Is there usually a feeling of indifference, tolerance? Is there a predominant feeling or a huge variation?
This is a very good question, and one that is way too often overlooked in any discussion/debate about the confederate flag. I wonder how many of those who so vehemently assert that the flag only represents something so benign as "southern heritage" take into account what the flag actually means to black southern heritage, which of course is an important component, as most blacks do indeed reside in the South.
....that if I ever visit a southern city, and someone asks me to "hold this flag" for a minute, I'd better ask what the flag represents, because I don't want to embarass myself?
Not sure what you are saying or asking here...
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You can take honor in Southern history, culture, etc., all you want, but honestly, where does it end? Every question becomes a referendum on Texas, the South, the Confederacy, the "southerness" of Texas, giving gold stars to members of the Confederacy, the military emphasis, and now , the FLAGS of the Confederacy?!?!?! Do you have some wish that you could have been at Robert E. Lee's side as Richmond was burning? Do you salute the "Stars and Bars" flag when you leave the house in the morning as you listen to "The Eyes of Texas Are Upon You" ?
What in the world are you ranting about?
This comment seems to typlify a great point TexastheKid brought up earlier. That is, the seeming obcession of many Northerners that Southerners need justify our history and heritage to them.
Where does it end? Well, take five, podner, and look over the countless threads where this subject comes up, and you will likely notice that they are usually not started by Southerners. Instead, the common denominator is generally that they are initiated by Northerners. Then, when Southerners reply to the said questions, or defend ouselves against self-righteous attacks, we are attacked in turn for doing so.
So answer the same question? Where does it end? It ends when many of your ilk get off your high horses. Simple as that.
You ask if I salute the "Stars and Bars" each morning while listening to the Eyes of Texas? No, I don't. But why should it affect your life if I did? Do you start off each morning obcessing how Texans/Southerners start the said day? Don't you yankees have enough of your own issues and problems to worry about?
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You do have some interesting conversations, and I'm not usually this opinionated, but enough is enough! Start a different conversation, and try not to mention any of the above, for a change.
Well, thank you for the initial compliment. But again, backtrack and look at just who seems to be obcessed. And don't presume to lecture me on what I will or will not bring up on a thread or concerning a topic when the whole thing is about varying opinions anyway. You're the one who needs to chill out. Forgive me if I am not much impressed with your credentials to be a moderator in the above realm.
And to add here, I am not a hard person to get along with. I realize reasonable people can disagree on such volitale subjects. I have no problem at all with that and enjoy a civil and respectful discussion/debate. Unfortunately, it all too often seems when things like this come up, the default presumption by many non-Southerners is that they occupy the moral high-ground.
This comment seems to typlify a great point TexastheKid brought up earlier. That is, the seeming obcession of many Northerners that Southerners need justify our history and heritage to them.
Where does it end? Well, take five, podner, and look over the countless threads where this subject comes up, and you will likely notice that they are usually not started by Southerners. Instead, the common denominator is generally that they are initiated by Northerners. Then, when Southerners reply to the said questions, or defend ouselves against self-righteous attacks, we are attacked in turn for doing so.
So answer the same question? Where does it end? It ends when many of your ilk get off your high horses. Simple as that.
You ask if I salute the "Stars and Bars" each morning while listening to the Eyes of Texas? No, I don't. But why should it affect your life if I did? Do you start off each morning obcessing how Texans/Southerners start the said day? Don't you yankees have enough of your own issues and problems to worry about?
Well, thank you for the initial compliment. But again, backtrack and look at just who seems to be obcessed. And don't presume to lecture me on what I will or will not bring up on a thread or concerning a topic when the whole thing is about varying opinions anyway. You're the one who needs to chill out. Forgive me if I am not much impressed with your credentials to be a moderator in the above realm.
And to add here, I am not a hard person to get along with. I realize reasonable people can disagree on such volitale subjects. I have no problem at all with that and enjoy a civil and respectful discussion/debate. Unfortunately, it all too often seems when things like this come up, the default presumption by many non-Southerners is that they occupy the moral high-ground.
..that you're exceptionally unreasonable or difficult, but I do think that you have a bit of a "blind spot" regarding the South, Confederacy, etc. I don't think that you realize that your moniker -"TexasReb"-might be construed as offensive to some people, as in "someone who wants to fight the Civil War all over again". I like the states I've lived in-VT, MA, WI and NY, but I'm not going to call myself "VermontYankee" or "UnionBlue"; I think it's a little over-the-top, and a little divisive. I also don't think about the Civil War much at all; as someone with a history degree, I've read all that I need to on the subject.
In general, I like the City-Data Forum, but until now i've largely stuck to State Boards, and ignored the National ones. That's now changed, as I find many of these topics are very interesting.I''ll read you posts, and you can read mine, if you like.I do much more reading than posting, by the way.There will be differences of opinion, but I won't let them interfere with my enjoyment of these boards.
If I find something outrageous, I MIGHT say something, but I've let an awful lot just go by the boards, and that's the policy I'll continue to follow...
Just my thoughts as the op but not really interested in what TexasReb thinks since it's been expressed on the forum before. I'm pretty much interested in Black southerners.
This comment seems to typlify a great point TexastheKid brought up earlier. That is, the seeming obcession of many Northerners that Southerners need justify our history and heritage to them.
Where does it end? Well, take five, podner, and look over the countless threads where this subject comes up, and you will likely notice that they are usually not started by Southerners. Instead, the common denominator is generally that they are initiated by Northerners. Then, when Southerners reply to the said questions, or defend ouselves against self-righteous attacks, we are attacked in turn for doing so.
So answer the same question? Where does it end? It ends when many of your ilk get off your high horses. Simple as that.
You ask if I salute the "Stars and Bars" each morning while listening to the Eyes of Texas? No, I don't. But why should it affect your life if I did? Do you start off each morning obcessing how Texans/Southerners start the said day? Don't you yankees have enough of your own issues and problems to worry about?
Well, thank you for the initial compliment. But again, backtrack and look at just who seems to be obcessed. And don't presume to lecture me on what I will or will not bring up on a thread or concerning a topic when the whole thing is about varying opinions anyway. You're the one who needs to chill out. Forgive me if I am not much impressed with your credentials to be a moderator in the above realm.
And to add here, I am not a hard person to get along with. I realize reasonable people can disagree on such volitale subjects. I have no problem at all with that and enjoy a civil and respectful discussion/debate. Unfortunately, it all too often seems when things like this come up, the default presumption by many non-Southerners is that they occupy the moral high-ground.
I only wish that the north would have let the south stay its own country..
It stinks to have to think that all we had to do was to leave you all alone and we wouldn't have to be associated with some of the worlds most ignorant people...
It's difficult to take pride in something that barely existed. But (and this is a big BUT), I wonder if some of this so-called pride is more a response to the Yankee cult of demonization that has plagued the Southern morale since reconstruction.
I agree with this. America was (with some exceptions), both North and South, a racist place during the Civil War. The North and the South may have approached slavery differently, but it wasn't because people in the North were less racist.
That said, I'm from the North (lived in VA for a time) and if I see a Confederate flag flying in MN I read that as a straight-out announcement of racist views (fair or not). In the South I think the flag - and the view of the Confederacy - is more nuanced, with some people flying it with views on race in mind, but with others more just with an anger that their part of the country is constantly belittled and labeled as racist by other parts of the country. American history has lots of tragedies and shameful parts to it, too, and racisim wasn't only found in the South and wasn't only directed towards African Americans. People with relatives who fought in the Confederacy get tired of having their ancestors demonized, especially since almost everyone of every race has some ancestors who participated one way or the other in some aspect of history that we look back at with horror.
Still, I can see why black Americans, Northern or Southern, would be offended by modern people's insistence on flying the Confederate flag or other over-celebrations of the Confederacy. The "meaning" of the Confederacy has been construed by some to mean a celebration of what they portray as the "good old days," and there's no way to escape the fact that those days did include the institution of slavery. I know this thread isn't just about the flag, but I wouldn't display the Confederate flag out of respect for the people who would see it as something personally offensive.
I'm not a Southern nor an African American, but I know how sick it is to see people use the confederate flag as a their symbol of pride. I mean there's so much to choose from.. you don't see the North go crazy with the union flag... and the funny thing is, THE NORTH WON!
I mean theres so many racist people who say "Go back to Africa" and all that jazz but who's the one's that brought them here by force. If anything, since the Europeans CHOSE to come here SLAUGHTERING the NATIVE Americans capturing and ENSLAVING Africans then why don't they leave since they made what America is today. It's like pouring a cup of soda thats flat and telling it to go back into the bottle with anger.
BTW, I'm Italian, so European or not, the truth is the truth.
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I don't think..
