The SCV plate controversy. (Atlanta, Arlington: zoned, license, vehicle)

[Desert kid]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

That flag? It is a divisive symbol of hate. To display it under the veiled guise of honoring southern heritage is intellectually dishonest.

You may as well as demonize the SCV ANV Battle Flag emblem.

And I'm being intellectually as honest as you are going to see me.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by Desert kid

You may as well as demonize the SCV ANV Battle Flag emblem.

And I'm being intellectually as honest as you are going to see me.

You can't "demonize" something that already stands for something negative. To demonize something means trying to add a negative connotation to something erroneously. That's not the case here.

Let's just be as blunt as we can be here....

The Confederacy was wrong. The principles of the Confederacy, from rebellion to slavery were wrong. People who fought for the Confederacy should generally be remembered and did the duty they were asked to perform, but they did it in service of wrong ideals.

Does the swastika need to be "demonized" or can we all agree that the Nazis were evil? That doesn't make every German who fought in WWII automatically evil, but many were.

Let's stop pretending the south did anything noble or worth remembering in the Civil War. It didn't. The flag of the Confederacy should be remembered as a symbol of a time in our history when some southerners did the wrong things, from the 1860s to the 1960s.

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by Desert kid

You may as well as demonize the SCV ANV Battle Flag emblem.

And I'm being intellectually as honest as you are going to see me.

Then you need to study history. Neil, above, explains it well.

[Desert kid]

Originally Posted by neil0311

You can't "demonize" something that already stands for something negative. To demonize something means trying to add a negative connotation to something erroneously. That's not the case here.

Let's just be as blunt as we can be here....

The Confederacy was wrong. The principles of the Confederacy, from rebellion to slavery were wrong. People who fought for the Confederacy should generally be remembered and did the duty they were asked to perform, but they did it in service of wrong ideals.

Does the swastika need to be "demonized" or can we all agree that the Nazis were evil? That doesn't make every German who fought in WWII automatically evil, but many were.

Let's stop pretending the south did anything noble or worth remembering in the Civil War. It didn't. The flag of the Confederacy should be remembered as a symbol of a time in our history when some southerners did the wrong things, from the 1860s to the 1960s.

I accept the people of the 19th century as who they were. Nothing more, nothing less. They saw the world different, and the world operated different.

The Confederate Battle Flag represents one grandfather, 3 uncles, 1 distant cousin and several other distant cousins who were at places like Valverde, Vicksburg, Chickamauga, and yes, Atlanta, to me, nothing more, nothing less. Am I saying what they believed in was perfect? No I'm not.

But comparing them to Nazis is intellectually dishonest, and I fear it's something you will never understand.

Go blow up Confederate monuments around Georgia and have Confederate Avenue renamed if you want it so much.

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

Then you need to study history. Neil, above, explains it well.

I do know my history, likely better than you.

To think I had uncles who defended that city once...look at the appreciation they get.

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by Desert kid

I do know my history, likely better than you.

To think I had uncles who defended that city once...look at the appreciation they get.

Neither the CSA nor the Confederate Army is deserving of appreciation. While their valor may be worthy of acknowledgment, their wrongheaded social and political ideas are not. If you know your history so well, you will also know that the St. Andrews cross flag saw widespread use between World War II and the Civil Rights Movement as a symbol of hatred - hatred so strong that it justified, in the perpetrators' minds, the murder of folks just because they looked different. Do you recall studying that in history? Maybe, just maybe, people with such a mindset should not be so worried about a long-dead relative and more worried about the people who live in the here and now.

And I'm a white guy who grew up in agrarian south Georgia...

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by Desert kid

But comparing them to Nazis is intellectually dishonest, and I fear it's something you will never understand.

Nonsense. It's as close of an analogy as exists. Fits perfectly. Sorry it doesn't jibe with your desired sanitized view of the Confederacy and the history of the flag through the 20th century.

Originally Posted by Desert kid

Go blow up Confederate monuments around Georgia and have Confederate Avenue renamed if you want it so much.

Now you're taking the conversation to the stupid. Maybe the KKK and other folks blow things up, but I don't dignify your stupidity.

BTW, I have said I have no problem if you want to put the flag on your car, or fly it at your home, or anything else. You can wear a white sheet if that's what you believe. You have that right as an American.

In turn, I have the right to form a judgment about you, dismiss you, and work against your ignorant and redneck viewpoint.

[AnsleyPark]

Neil - I've tried to rep you for your posts here. Alas...

[Desert kid]

Originally Posted by neil0311

Nonsense. It's as close of an analogy as exists. Fits perfectly. Sorry it doesn't jibe with your desired sanitized view of the Confederacy and the history of the flag through the 20th century.



Now you're taking the conversation to the stupid. Maybe the KKK and other folks blow things up, but I don't dignify your stupidity.

BTW, I have said I have no problem if you want to put the flag on your car, or fly it at your home, or anything else. You can wear a white sheet if that's what you believe. You have that right as an American.

In turn, I have the right to form a judgment about you, dismiss you, and work against your ignorant and redneck viewpoint.

And it's a stupid analogy nonetheless, I'm fairly certain the CSA never engaged in industrial genocide and Jeff Davis was certainly no Hitler. The failing of that argument falls square on you.

I'm not going to wear a white sheet, I'm not going to put it on my truck, or any of that. But when someone gets kneejerk pissy and starts another BS liberal morality crusade because a Civil War reenactment group wants a Confederate flag background on a plate that already had a Confederate battle flag emblem on it for more than a decade without issue, that is the problem.

Call it a redneck viewpoint, in my neck of the woods, middle of the desert, crazy, libertarian, southern AZ the general consensus is "if you don't like it, look the other way".

[southgeorgia]

Below is a picture of the current Georgia state flag.





And this flag below is the flag of the Confederate States of America.

[neil0311]

Yeah, the current state flag looks like the original CSA flag. No doubt.

Wouldn't it have been nice if the state Legislature wasn't full of "good ole boys" who instead of doing the right thing, did the expedient thing, and threw a bone to the ignorant masses in this state who wanted to keep the flag the 1950s flag with the "stars and bars" on it? It's too bad the GA state flag isn't totally divorced from anything to do with the Civil War and the Confederacy, but there are obviously people in this state who wish the south had won and things were still as they were in the 1850s.

The difference....is that the flag now used by GA doesn't have the connotation that the "stars and bars" do from the Jim Crow and civil rights period AFTER the 1860s. The KKK and other redneck morons don't march with the 1861 battle flag. They march with the stars and bars. Which flag was in Selma as marchers were beat and hosed?

It's NOT just about the Civil War and the Confederacy, but about the 150 years that followed.