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Old 08-07-2011, 08:32 PM
 
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mikeyking...That's why unions came about..but with so many people against them now...looks like history will repeat itself once again.
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Old 08-07-2011, 10:40 PM
 
Location: Orange County, CA
4,901 posts, read 3,359,747 times
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Corporations have increasingly become the new "dictators" of the 21st century. Beyond the control of even the biggest governments and increasingly beholden to no-one...
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Old 08-08-2011, 12:17 AM
 
Location: Free From The Oppressive State
30,253 posts, read 23,729,935 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyking View Post
Employers push people into narrow areas of specialism to suite their needs - and instead of being flexible and employing someone who can adapt themselves in work well in any job - they sit back and wait for someone who is exactly they want.

Employers dislike their employees moonlighting - they say because it might affect their performance in their main job - but is there not also the fact that it changes the employee, employer relationship - if you have other sources of income then the employer has less means to control you.

Then we have employers who give you too much work, and expect you to spend your spare time reading up, almost encourage lots of competition between their employees, lots of backstabbing - all to suit their needs.

This whole thing about flexi time, casual dress - again there just an outward appearance of being laid back and flexible - below the surface its just as cut throat and competitive as ever.

My point employers are doing this their employees - All for limited rewards, whilst there are top earners there are many people working all hours for pretty average salaries. And to top it off know ones knows what each other is getting paid.

Therefore should we not all become more entreprenurial - have properties, do freelance work, spend most of our time trying to build a sort of portfolio income.

Surely this the only way to break the stranglehold employers, we need to change the current model of get a degree, get a job to create own opportunities and not have golden handcuff, and all sort of manipulations and pressures being put on you by employers.
Totally agree with the above points you made, most especially the first one. I've had a few jobs where I could have learned something in that job that wasn't my particular area but had the time to learn it and was always told, "Oh you don't need to learn that". Why not?! What, you don't want me to actually GAIN some skills? Afraid I might use those skills to get a better job somewhere else? That's b.s. Every job should teach you something new.

And yes, the only way to get out of that rat race is to become an entrepreneur and start up your own business or create something that people want.

Employers are totally taking advantage of this economy and so many people out of work. They are cutting things out, hiring people on as temps or "part time" or "seasonal" so as not to have to pay benefits or give overtime...and should the economy recover, I am definitely going to remember who those employers were and NEVER use their services.
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Old 08-08-2011, 09:46 AM
 
1,140 posts, read 2,138,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Park View Post
Oh!

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!!!!!!!

An eloquent observation that applies to so many of us working in today's society. I agree entirely. You really hit the nail on the head.

My dear old Dad saw it coming way back in the early 1980's ... he said, with companies swallowing other companies, outsourcing, downsizing, the global economy, the weakening of collective bargaining and labor unions, etc. Dad said: "Be loyal to no company nor any employer. They have no loyalty to you. The week after you start a new job, up-date your resume
and start looking for something better. Have more than one sources of incomes. Be prepared for a lay-off. Keep a work diary if you ever have to document any overtime you worked, any extra work you performed 'above and beyond the call of duty', any illegal or unethical shenanigans your employer or management engages in. Look after your own interests. But most of all have money coming in from a few different sources so that you are not entirely dependent on one lousy job!"

I suggest one have a profitable hobby that you enjoy doing. Are you a free lance electrician, plumber, auto mechanic, painter, artist, pet-sitter, gardener, carpenter ... you would be surprised how many of your neighbors and friends would love to "hire" you and gladly pay for your services!
Its refreshing to hear a similar opinion to mine - and a person who can see just how shafted your average employee is these days. Whilst i don't doubt if your at the top of organisation - then yes things can be good.

Too often we particulary my age group - there is too much trust in employers and the corporate system. For example if I said to some salaried employees to try to setup your own business they would just laugh at you - as if they have done it all before - when in reality most of them have effectively been stuck in earning pretty average salaries.

Point out to them their salary has not risen with houseprices - and that why they are stuck in small flat, or have a huge mortgage they can just afford. Or point out if everything is so great with your job - why have you been renting for 10 years - its always but i'll get promoted to such and such in the future.

Actually try to ask them what there salary is - they won't tell you, and will tell you its not about money, they do it for other reasons, because they love the job - when in reality you find out there looking for other jobs, and wanting payrises behind the scences.

These type of people walk around with conceited, arrogant attitude - totally oblivious to the reality there fairly powerless and grovelling to their bosses, there days are spent sitting at desks and attending meetings - with little or no tangible skills.

Jobs are not all the bad - but what ever happened to being a free person - it just feels like many jobs take away peoples freedom.

In my opinion its all about denial - no point trying to get through to them, just smile at them and let them get on with it, tell them what they want to hear - and quietly get on with plotting your way up the corporate ladder, running side business and develop more income in any way you can.
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Old 08-08-2011, 10:48 AM
 
Location: University City, Philadelphia
22,632 posts, read 14,939,765 times
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Permit me to extrapolate a little more on the aggravating and frustrating aspects of being employed in SALES ...

... whether it's insurance sales, advertising sales, car sales, retail sales, real estate sales, food and beverage sales, etc., etc. ...

- Most employers will set weekly or monthly goals and create a myth if you don't reach your goal it's your fault even though the national economy, the weather, competition from other businesses, amount of advertising, etc. play into the equation. Sales goals and quotas are bogus!

- Many, if not most, businesses in sales nurture and cultivate a culture of competitiveness amongst the staff so that the people you work with are your mortal enemies. It's a cut-throat dog-eat-dog business. The bosses love that. Sales people step on each other's toes, try to steal clients away from their colleagues, experience great anxiety if someone else lands a big deal or is writing more business than you are. It stinks!!

- It is true that many sales organizations will have one or maybe two "star" performers who take home an above average paycheck. In my job, where we can figure out what everyone else is taking home in commissions, the boss always says "Look at So-and-So! They are taking home more than $1000 each week, sometimes much more! With bonuses and spiffs, that person will take home at $58,000 to $68,000 a year!!! You can be making that too if you try harder!!!" Not true. From my experience that person is the exception, not the rule. We all can't be #1 or even #2 every month. As it turns out even "So-and-So" had a couple of bad months where the earnings were one half of what that person made the previous months. BTW, So-and-So was a highly skilled professional with 30 years experience in that highly specialized type of selling, and already built up a following over many years.

- If you do have a good month or two you're a hero. The following month, it is all forgotten like ancient history. Have a bad month or two and no matter how successful you were in the past you find yourself being 'written up' for lack of sales productivity.

Whew. Glad I got that off my chest!
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Old 08-08-2011, 11:10 AM
 
1,140 posts, read 2,138,769 times
Reputation: 1740
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Park View Post
Permit me to extrapolate a little more on the aggravating and frustrating aspects of being employed in SALES ...

... whether it's insurance sales, advertising sales, car sales, retail sales, real estate sales, food and beverage sales, etc., etc. ...

- Most employers will set weekly or monthly goals and create a myth if you don't reach your goal it's your fault even though the national economy, the weather, competition from other businesses, amount of advertising, etc. play into the equation. Sales goals and quotas are bogus!

- Many, if not most, businesses in sales nurture and cultivate a culture of competitiveness amongst the staff so that the people you work with are your mortal enemies. It's a cut-throat dog-eat-dog business. The bosses love that. Sales people step on each other's toes, try to steal clients away from their colleagues, experience great anxiety if someone else lands a big deal or is writing more business than you are. It stinks!!

- It is true that many sales organizations will have one or maybe two "star" performers who take home an above average paycheck. In my job, where we can figure out what everyone else is taking home in commissions, the boss always says "Look at So-and-So! They are taking home more than $1000 each week, sometimes much more! With bonuses and spiffs, that person will take home at $58,000 to $68,000 a year!!! You can be making that too if you try harder!!!" Not true. From my experience that person is the exception, not the rule. We all can't be #1 or even #2 every month. As it turns out even "So-and-So" had a couple of bad months where the earnings were one half of what that person made the previous months. BTW, So-and-So was a highly skilled professional with 30 years experience in that highly specialized type of selling, and already built up a following over many years.

- If you do have a good month or two you're a hero. The following month, it is all forgotten like ancient history. Have a bad month or two and no matter how successful you were in the past you find yourself being 'written up' for lack of sales productivity.

Whew. Glad I got that off my chest!

Have never worked in Sales - but I can see a similar way in the corporate workplace - where for example you have "star performers" who get to go travelling places more often, earn probably a little more than average but then again have to spend a lot of their free time being a star performer - effectively these type of people like to show their very clever.

But there being 'clever' or a star performer is just lots of hours work swotting away in their free time to be one step ahead of the pack in terms of knowledge - I think the majority of people don't see the benefit in spending all your time working away for slightly more.

and yes I agree one week your a hero, next week something goes wrong and your the worst in the world.

Not critising them - but some of these people will put everything before their job, and ultra competitive about their job - they will spend all their time just to get a marginal amount of money more than their colleague.
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Old 08-08-2011, 11:51 AM
 
48,502 posts, read 96,838,702 times
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Actaully we are much less dependent on employers since the 70's recession when mnay people actaulyl started the small business expansion which is still large today. Private contratcors oqwned by people who once would have worked for a larger corporation is pretty common today compared to say the 50's and 60's.One reason for the increased numbers of wealthy people also.
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Old 08-08-2011, 01:14 PM
 
6,084 posts, read 6,042,944 times
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Clark and mike, I can't add anymore else than to say: excellent analysis and advice.

This past summer I've made the decision to start taking more control and responsibility over my life.

The days when one could work for a company over 20 years and retire with a pension are over and its time for a plan B.
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Old 08-08-2011, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,446 posts, read 16,183,316 times
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We're all dependent upon employers and the employers are dependent on the uber-employers. The average working people have no leverage, no control of how they will be used, or exploited.
The motto is: work harder, work faster, work longer...until you drop dead.
The American life style has removed any fragment of quality of life for the average working person.
Starting your own business may be even worst, a 60 hour week just to barely pay expenses. Kiss your family life good-bye.
In today's America President Eisenhower would be blasted as an anti-American commie.
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Old 08-08-2011, 01:59 PM
 
1,140 posts, read 2,138,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis View Post
We're all dependent upon employers and the employers are dependent on the uber-employers. The average working people have no leverage, no control of how they will be used, or exploited.
The motto is: work harder, work faster, work longer...until you drop dead.
The American life style has removed any fragment of quality of life for the average working person.
Starting your own business may be even worst, a 60 hour week just to barely pay expenses. Kiss your family life good-bye.
Its one of the odd things about our democracy - we all have the chance to vote, or express or opinion but for the most part its big business and employers that really call the shots in your day to day life - except its never really discussed its almost a taboo. We know that behind the fascade and pleasantaries at your average workplace - its really just economic competition.

You'd never hear politican saying someone working on the minimum wage is effectively a wage slave, with no real chance of getting anywhere in life financially, and guess what they don't really care what they think - cause your just there to serve fries and flip burgers.

Yes somewhat agree with what you saying - the system is setup in such a way that we have no leverage - and even if you do run your own Business you may not earn anymore and end up working all hours.

But here is the way if you can earn enough in your job to pay your bills, run a car etc.

and use your spare time - start building up while your still young enough - there lots of smug people who will get the chop someday, and then see how bitter they will be, by putting every bit of effort into a job for minimal rewards. You lose your job at 50, with nothing to show for the last 30 years, or little - whats the chances of you getting a job then? There are so many people too complacent, and there day of reckoning is coming. There gonna be stuck on the minimum wage.

Its going to get worse with jobs going to China and India - and the west going downhill...

My aim is to spend wasted time - TV, too much net, etc - doing things productive and save as much as money as I can while living a decent life.

I guess its no different to say working at high level in an organisation in a job that takes up all your time (senior Management)- but then your trapped by politics, sucking to the right people, watching your step all the time.

Last edited by mikeyking; 08-08-2011 at 02:08 PM..
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