U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
Old 08-13-2011, 01:36 PM
6,307 posts, read 6,822,675 times
Reputation: 8035


Originally Posted by sacramento916 View Post

Anyone who devotes themselves to a company is a fool. Do not be loyal to someone or something that has no loyalty for you. This is business, it is cold, it is cruel and it is calculating.
I work for a large corporation. Basically came upon this job fortuitously about 3 1/2 years ago. I have devoted myself to this job, because that's the way I do things, bottom line. However, in devoting myself to this job, I have acquired skills and knowledge (not to mention contacts) that will serve me well in the future, whether I decide to stay with this company or move on to something else.

Am I a fool for desiring stability in an unstable job market? Am I a fool for wanting an education that law school could never give? Frankly, I believe that people in my field do themselves a huge disservice by "going it on their own" too quickly, before acquiring the skills, contacts and reputation that will enable them to be successful when they go out and hang their own shingle.

This is the first time in my life that I've worked for a large corporation, and sincerely, I can say that the pros for me definitely outweigh the cons. I have never once worried about my job security. Sure, no job is secure, but this one is more secure than most in my field. A month or so ago, I had the opportunity to take a position in the company that was made *for me*. Gee, the higher-ups actually thought of how I could develop my skills within the company...I believe that's pretty significant.

After having read through all of these responses and all of the *high fives* that have been given out, I realize that my response will probably not receive the same kudos. So be it. But, to be called a "fool" because I choose to do what I feel is best for my career, and more importantly, what is most stable for me at this point? I just had to respond.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Old 08-13-2011, 02:04 PM
Location: Florida
2,291 posts, read 4,574,156 times
Reputation: 5213
I too, worked in corporate america for over 30 years. I had a job to do, and , I did it. I was paid fairly. There were benefits available such as a 401K, and fortunately a pension plan. Yet, I never depended on company benefits, I managed my life, my income and invested to secure my retirement. The bottom line is...I have the responsibility to provide for myself, either while working or in retirement.

No matter how you cut it, there are only two ways to earn money...go to work...or invest your money and let it work for you, and if corporate america is the way to go, I am all for it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-13-2011, 04:08 PM
917 posts, read 1,647,087 times
Reputation: 699
I do think some of us are too dependent on our employers. I believe in having multiple streams of income.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-13-2011, 04:51 PM
Location: Destrehan, Louisiana
2,192 posts, read 5,869,375 times
Reputation: 3587
Originally Posted by mikeyking View Post
There are so many people who have no savings, investments or no back in the event of them losing their job they are completely screwed in the event of losing their job.

Even people with lots of savings, and who are well off, and on a good salary can quickly see all there savings and homes disappear with a lengthy period out of work.

There many people on good salaries - but are in a niche area or specialisim - and if they are out of work then it may well take a long time for something to come up in their area.

Employers push people into narrow areas of specialism to suite their needs - and instead of being flexible and employing someone who can adapt themselves in work well in any job - they sit back and wait for someone who is exactly they want.

The other thing is many jobs are setup in such a way that you don't have the ability get many tangible skills, you can build contact and lots or organisation knowledge but this does not do you any good in the next organisation - and your quickly replaceable, therefore you have little means to negotiate or get a decent pay rise.

I often thinks its odd to see so many people who believe there free to do as they please and make there own decisions, and they believe that all they have to do is work hard - when in reality you might be doing an OK job, but the employer may just want to make a change and they lose their job.

When in reality - its the employer who creates the job, the employer can choose to hire or fire, the employer can turn down promotion, pay rise or anything they want based all sorts of picky reasons. Employees just don't get the fact that they really have no control over anything.

Employers dislike their employees moonlighting - they say because it might affect their performance in their main job - but is there not also the fact that it changes the employee, employer relationship - if you have other sources of income then the employer has less means to control you.

For example I have some properties rented out and a little side work - now I know some of my colleagues were not happy to hear this - again because this means your earning more than them. People don't realise just how many bosses and colleagues who outwardly pretend to nice people are simply just trying to stifle you - and don't want you earning more than them, in work or outside work.

Then we have employers who give you too much work, and expect you to spend your spare time reading up, almost encourage lots of competition between their employees, lots of backstabbing - all to suit their needs.

This whole thing about flexi time, casual dress - again there just an outward appearance of being laid back and flexible - below the surface its just as cut throat and competitive as ever.

My point employers are doing this their employees - All for limited rewards, whilst there are top earners there are many people working all hours for pretty average salaries. And to top it off know ones knows what each other is getting paid.

Therefore should we not all become more entreprenurial - have properties, do freelance work, spend most of our time trying to build a sort of portfolio income.

Surely this the only way to break the stranglehold employers, we need to change the current model of get a degree, get a job to create own opportunities and not have golden handcuff, and all sort of manipulations and pressures being put on you by employers.
Do you even have a clue as to what you're talking about. I read your post several times and still can't make heads or tails of it.

You don't get a job and expect to change anything. You start a business and create your own destiny. Oh and after you become an employer don't come back and post about your employees screwing you.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-13-2011, 04:52 PM
Location: Destrehan, Louisiana
2,192 posts, read 5,869,375 times
Reputation: 3587
Originally Posted by Lycanmaster View Post
Corporations have increasingly become the new "dictators" of the 21st century. Beyond the control of even the biggest governments and increasingly beholden to no-one...

What do you have a link to back this up?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-13-2011, 05:02 PM
1,248 posts, read 1,774,647 times
Reputation: 1231
The internet is the new television commercial for some people.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-13-2011, 05:03 PM
Location: Destrehan, Louisiana
2,192 posts, read 5,869,375 times
Reputation: 3587
Originally Posted by kovert View Post
Clark and mike, I can't add anymore else than to say: excellent analysis and advice.

This past summer I've made the decision to start taking more control and responsibility over my life.

The days when one could work for a company over 20 years and retire with a pension are over and its time for a plan B.

It's always been that way. Why would you depend on a company to do the job of your future security when it's your responsibility to begin with.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-13-2011, 05:05 PM
Location: Destrehan, Louisiana
2,192 posts, read 5,869,375 times
Reputation: 3587
Originally Posted by Visvaldis View Post
We're all dependent upon employers and the employers are dependent on the uber-employers. The average working people have no leverage, no control of how they will be used, or exploited.
The motto is: work harder, work faster, work longer...until you drop dead.
The American life style has removed any fragment of quality of life for the average working person.
Starting your own business may be even worst, a 60 hour week just to barely pay expenses. Kiss your family life good-bye.
In today's America President Eisenhower would be blasted as an anti-American commie.
WOW blame everyone and everything else for your failures.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-13-2011, 09:12 PM
23,384 posts, read 25,328,162 times
Reputation: 20809
Originally Posted by purehuman View Post
mikeyking...That's why unions came about..but with so many people against them now...looks like history will repeat itself once again.
The problem with unions is they are just as greedy as the corporate chiefs. They will bankrupt an organization before they make pay and benefit concessions. I work in the public sector and I see this happening right under my nose. The union will not admit the pension benefits are not sustainable.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-13-2011, 09:31 PM
23,384 posts, read 25,328,162 times
Reputation: 20809
Originally Posted by Clark Park View Post
I hope this is not off topic, but since I have no kids here are a pieces of advice I don't mind sharing with younger folks out there, whether still in high school or college, or young marrieds or singles just starting out in life:

1. Although some established financial experts are nowadays giving the opposite point of view, like Suze Orman, I suggest you buy your house and not rent. Homeowners do build equity in their properties and have something to show for all those months and years of payments, unlike renters.

2. If you do buy a house, consider buying a "duplex" or a "mother/daughter" type house or something with a rentable apartment. Let the tenant pay much or all of your mortgage payments.

3. Forget about status symbols and keeping up with the Joneses. Live within your means. Don't drive a luxury car. An economy car will still get you to your destination. Avoid the pricey designer shops in Malls. Embrace and rejoice in your frugality!!!

4. Have another source of income. Do not be so very dependent on that one paycheck. A money-making hobby, a bit of moon-lighting, rent checks from tenants, doing chores for others (but not for free, your time is money!).

5. Don't gamble. I am serious about this. Stay away from Casinos and don't play the Lottery. These things are for suckers!!! I like visiting Atlantic City for strolling on the Boardwalk, having a nice seafood lunch, or even getting a 20 minute Chinese foot massage ... but I do not even put a penny in those slot machines! Look at those fancy hotels and casinos, paid for by the losses of gamblers!!!
To your point #1, I would modify it to say to keep your rent/mortgage (including taxes & insurance) to a low % of your gross income. 20% of your gross or less is ideal. Anything above 25% is danger territory. If people would keep their housing costs to a low % of their gross, they would make out ok whether they owned or rented.

A few more points I'd add:

---Don't have kids without being married. 40% of kids today are born out of wedlock. Having kids without being married is like asking to be a slave. It's not good for you or your kid(s).

--A corrollary to the point above....if you're going to do the marriage/kids thing, learn what a good marriage partner looks like (eg---attraction/love is great, but is never enough all by itself) so that you can get married and stay married. The flip side, of course, is you also need to be "marriage material". People who divorce are much less well off financially and health-wise. I really like practical books such as Is He Mr. Right? by Mira Kirshenbaum. It's written for women but 90% of it is applicable to anyone, man, woman, gay or straight.

Amazon.com: Is He Mr. Right?: Everything You Need to Know Before You Commit: Mira Kirshenbaum: Books
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.

Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:31 PM.

2005-2017, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 - Top