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Who cares? As long as these people are not affecting anyone else, who cares what they do to themselves?
Ahhh...the voice of reason. Real world experience.
In the context it we were talking about I'd answer most anybody on the other side of the 3000 lbs of steel being operated by the stoned person just as it is with a drunk.
Hows does a person die from marijuana when it isn't a poison? If you go to Wikipedia & type in marijuana deaths, you get a return response the page you are looking for, marijuana deaths, does not exist.
First off Wiki is not a reputable source for anything. I'd bet if we dug deep enough a death or two would show up or we'd find stats that counter what you say. Doesn't mean the stats are exactly correct, just as stats for the proponents aren't.
Secondly, it's repeatedly stated in your posts that all drugs should be legal "to stop dealers and other down sides of drugs" so it's very clear where your attitudes lie.
If having all drugs legalized was such a wonderful idea then why is it that only a couple of the "progressive" countries do so? Of the countries that do have them legalized those same countries pay for all treatment and rehab of the addicts as well and on top of that tax the snot out of it's citizens to cover the costs.
Also, if I remember correctly these places also have a very strict law on operating vehicles while intoxicated on anything, along the lines of 0 tolerance, like no blood alcohol content etc and toss your butt in prison if caught.
First off Wiki is not a reputable source for anything. I'd bet if we dug deep enough a death or two would show up or we'd find stats that counter what you say. Doesn't mean the stats are exactly correct, just as stats for the proponents aren't.
I would challenge YOU to dig up those stats. There has never, ever been a single recorded case of death attributable by marijuana. Period.
First off Wiki is not a reputable source for anything. I'd bet if we dug deep enough a death or two would show up or we'd find stats that counter what you say. Doesn't mean the stats are exactly correct, just as stats for the proponents aren't.
By the way,thousands of people per year die from Aspirin,which can cause Ulcer's and intestinal bleeding.I take it you support Aspirin be prohibited,am I correct? No? Yeah,I thought so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj
Secondly, it's repeatedly stated in your posts that all drugs should be legal "to stop dealers and other down sides of drugs" so it's very clear where your attitudes lie.
Well,guess what,drugs also have upsides....
I'm sure you're aware that cocaine is used in certain eye operations to this day? That Heroin is given in small doses to women with birth complications? That amphetamines are used against joint pains? That the DEA recommended MDMA (Ecstasy) was made a Schedule 3 drug so it could be prescribed? You know all this,don't you? No?,Yeah,it's obvious you don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj
If having all drugs legalized was such a wonderful idea then why is it that only a couple of the "progressive" countries do so? Of the countries that do have them legalized those same countries pay for all treatment and rehab of the addicts as well and on top of that tax the snot out of it's citizens to cover the costs.
Also, if I remember correctly these places also have a very strict law on operating vehicles while intoxicated on anything, along the lines of 0 tolerance, like no blood alcohol content etc and toss your butt in prison if caught.
Please name one single,solitary country that has legalised drugs.....just ONE!
Well,I'll save you the googling cause there isn't one. Even the Netherlands have NOT legalised Cannabis... it's merely tolerated.
However there are some countries that do tolerate even hard drugs,such as Switzerland. The Swiss actually have Heroin Clinics where addicts can get their fix.Guess what? Their crime rate is a fraction of any American City. Looking or Heroin in Zurich? Good Luck,cause times have gotten tough for Heroin pusher since the government gives out clean,pharmaceutical Heroin.
Do you know how many overdose deaths those clinics had since they were established? O
By the by,Switzerland is an extremely conservative country.
Oh,and about the tax..... problematic drug-addicts steal and rob in the tens of thousands each year to feed their habit. A shot of government heroin is about $10.... go figure. Not counting in the $47000 a year it takes to incarcerate addicts,dealers and the like.
Anyway,I hope this was somewhat educational for you and you go away and educate yourself on this issue.It takes years of research and dedication,so all the best.
Before you get any idea,I am a Conservative-Libertarian,don't drink,snort,smoke,inject,sniff or whatever.
In the context it we were talking about I'd answer most anybody on the other side of the 3000 lbs of steel being operated by the stoned person just as it is with a drunk.
As has been discussed 59873489763498760986790276902837692873069827569872 3098567 times, driving while stoned is already illegal, so your argument is, again, pointless. Some people are going to do it whether or not pot is legal. In any event, laws cannot be in place based on a bunch of "what ifs".
Do try to come up with an original argument. Everything you've said has already been discussed and soundly refuted. If you don't want pot to be legal, fine, but at least have an actual solid reason for your views.
I don't buy this for one min. Its all bunk, Marijuana did not cause this problem if it even exists and you are not trolling. Second and for the sake of argument, how many deaths, and or brain damage is caused from Alcohol? Ten or a hundred times any problems caused by Marijuana, so what lets go back to the Volstead act? LMAO Really? People can die of Water poisoning. Yep you can drink too much water and die. This is all bogus and has no place in the Marijuana debate. Its fake science. Also how many lives are ruined and at how much cost to the tax payers because of locking people up for an oz of pot? So lets say your brother smoked pot all day non stop for a month and it damaged his brain because of lack of Oxygen. LOL So now we want to back track to the days of spending billions of dollars on enforcement and prison because one idiot did something stupid? How about taking responsibility for what ever it is that is the real problem?
I don't buy this for one min. Its all bunk, Marijuana did not cause this problem if it even exists and you are not trolling. Second and for the sake of argument, how many deaths, and or brain damage is caused from Alcohol? Ten or a hundred times any problems caused by Marijuana, so what lets go back to the Volstead act? LMAO Really? People can die of Water poisoning. Yep you can drink too much water and die. This is all bogus and has no place in the Marijuana debate. Its fake science. Also how many lives are ruined and at how much cost to the tax payers because of locking people up for an oz of pot? So lets say your brother smoked pot all day non stop for a month and it damaged his brain because of lack of Oxygen. LOL So now we want to back track to the days of spending billions of dollars on enforcement and prison because one idiot did something stupid? How about taking responsibility for what ever it is that is the real problem?
True statements.
I'm don't think pot can be considered healthy, however. To my knowledge, the health of long term pot smokers has not been studied extensively. Not so easy to study when possession is illegal.
These days science says tobacco smoke and BBQ smoke cause cancer. Just a whiff of second hand cigarette smoke can kill you, according to the anti-smokers and tiny particles can seep through apartment walls and kill you. It's hard to believe pot smoke is some mind of magic smoke that does no harm to the lungs.
That said, I personally think it should be legalized and businesses be allowed to open that cater to pot smokers. Bars, Restaurants, whatever should be only be required to hang a sign on the door that says "Pot Smoking Allowed."
I have better things for the cops to do than bust somebody smoking a joint. Or a tobacco smoker, for that matter.
I have made it very clear that he's had a generally unhealthy lifestyle, including abusing alcohol. Of COURSE these have all contributed to his overall poor health.
But I have never heard of an alcoholic becoming so psychotic and delusional that he lapses into schizophrenia. I mean, I guess it happens rarely. But it's not the norm.
I am relaying what his medical team has told us. They have specifically stated repeatedly that it was his regular use of marijuana that was the main culprit. They've examined him for nearly two weeks now, tested him, and delved into his personal history in great detail. I haven't - and neither has anyone else on this forum.
My sympathies to you and the other posters who are dealing with these issues. I have family members who are mentally ill. I know exactly what you are going through as I've dealt with the same issues all my life.
I find it interesting that his medical team has told you that marijuana was the main culprit. Having come from a family with a long history of mental illness, (schizophrenia, bi-polar) I have reseached extensively, experienced, and participated in a study conducted by a university. What I have learned over the years, is that no one really knows. For every study claiming a cause there are 1000's more indicating something else. The most popular theory now is genetics. But, it is all still speculation. There are no tests for diseases of the brain. It's still guess work and a judgement call by the doctors.
Obvisously, I know nothing about your brother or his doctors. However, I do know that there are no definitive answers when it comes to the brain. "Experts" don't know much more today than they did 50 years ago. They have a lot of theories, speculation, opinions and much better drugs to treat the symptions, but no good answers.
I don't believe that smoking pot is a "main culprit". "Correlation does not imply causation". Drug abuse is a common trait of the mentally ill in an attempt to self medicate.
Having said that, I believe that genetics play a pivotal role in mental illness. Not wanting to possibly pass any "bad genes" on, I have chosen not to have any children (other factors involved, but still a major consideration). So, if it is genetics, do we ban all people with a history of mental illness from having children? Obviously ridiculous. However, with all due respect, I think your views of marijuana have been skewed by emotion and misleading statements. I say misleading, because, to make a definative statement regarding an area that has research and theories, with no facts, oversimplifies a complex problem.
I don't smoke pot and haven't for many years (25+), but I know responsible people who do smoke recreationally. I think it should be legalized, regulated and controlled. Anything can be abused and/or harmful, but that shouldn't be the criteria for whether or not to legalize it. I don't think either extreme (ban junk food/legalize heroin) should be part of the discussion. Marijuana is a separate issue.
Legalizing marijuana would potentially reduce the number of children with access to it. It's much easier for a kid to get a joint than a 6 pack of beer. The amount of money spent every year trying to stop illegal activies associated with marijuana could be put to better use. So much money is wasted trying to stop it, court costs, police, and jails, etc. Punish those who misuse it, but allow responsible adults to use it.
By the way,thousands of people per year die from Aspirin,which can cause Ulcer's and intestinal bleeding.I take it you support Aspirin be prohibited,am I correct? No? Yeah,I thought so.
Well,guess what,drugs also have upsides....
I'm sure you're aware that cocaine is used in certain eye operations to this day? That Heroin is given in small doses to women with birth complications? That amphetamines are used against joint pains? That the DEA recommended MDMA (Ecstasy) was made a Schedule 3 drug so it could be prescribed? You know all this,don't you? No?,Yeah,it's obvious you don't.
Please name one single,solitary country that has legalised drugs.....just ONE!
Well,I'll save you the googling cause there isn't one. Even the Netherlands have NOT legalised Cannabis... it's merely tolerated.
However there are some countries that do tolerate even hard drugs,such as Switzerland. The Swiss actually have Heroin Clinics where addicts can get their fix.Guess what? Their crime rate is a fraction of any American City. Looking or Heroin in Zurich? Good Luck,cause times have gotten tough for Heroin pusher since the government gives out clean,pharmaceutical Heroin.
Do you know how many overdose deaths those clinics had since they were established? O
By the by,Switzerland is an extremely conservative country.
Oh,and about the tax..... problematic drug-addicts steal and rob in the tens of thousands each year to feed their habit. A shot of government heroin is about $10.... go figure. Not counting in the $47000 a year it takes to incarcerate addicts,dealers and the like.
Anyway,I hope this was somewhat educational for you and you go away and educate yourself on this issue.It takes years of research and dedication,so all the best.
Before you get any idea,I am a Conservative-Libertarian,don't drink,snort,smoke,inject,sniff or whatever.
Take care.
Actually Cocaine is/has been used for nasal issues as well. As for amphetamines (a subject I'm rather familiar with by the way) are used for many conditions (joint pain is a new one on me, maybe I'll mention it to my doc's for my joint pain) like sleep disorders (narcolepsy) ADHD,some weight loss and some mood disorders. Just because a drug has a medicinal use does not mean (to me) that it should be sold at the street level in an unregulated manner to whomever wants it. I feel the same about pot by the way, wonder when they'll do that 'cause they sure aren't now.
As for countries where drugs (all) are legal you are incorrect as you obviously missed Portugal. I also count "legal" if while there are laws they're never enforced they may not be De facto legal but are legal by De jure. Oh, you might also want to look at the Netherlands (you'll notice I've not even gotten to Switzerland yet) and see what Amsterdam has to offer. Here's a small quote:
"Proponents of legalization almost certainly would cite Amsterdam as the drug Mecca of the Western world. Anyone may go into the restaurants in this city and order marijuana and hashish from a menu; further, heroin and cocaine have been decriminalized for all practical purposes. The police simply leave the users alone. Consequently, health officials estimate that Amsterdam has 7,000 addicts, 20% of whom are foreigners.58 These addicts are responsible for 80% of all property crime in the city, thus necessitating that Amsterdam maintain a police presence far greater than those of cities of comparable size in the United States."
As for the tax thing, here's what goes on in the Netherlands:The Dutch have not raised one dollar in tax revenue from drug sales, and drug violators account for 50 percent of the Dutch prison population, a higher proportion than in the United States. The Netherlands is the most crime-prone nation in Europe and most drug addicts live on state welfare payments and by committing crimes so I'd say that's working out real well.
"Much like Amsterdam, Switzerland until recently followed a policy of decriminalization. Indeed, a city park in the town of Zurich for many years was allowed to be a haven for drug users - police simply would ignore the problem by claiming that it was better to have all the addicts in one place rather than having them roam throughout the entire city. Unsurprisingly, in February of 1992 Switzerland ended this experiment with decriminalization after experiencing an unacceptable increase in use, violence, crime and health costs and consequences. Specifically, the number of addicts residing at the park (called Platzspitz) jumped from a few hundred in 1987 to over 20,000, by early 1992."
If anyone is interested the data came from The Experience of Foreign Countries and Drug Legalization
I'm not against pot for medical reasons but set up a "real" program not these hokey back door legalization medical MJ scams that we've got now.
I guess I could take a libertarian stance on this and say "legalize it all, let people decide for themselves" but as you can see from other countries it ain't working out so well for them besides who then will be paying when these drug addicts burn out or just want to sit and get high all day? Either they will by crime or the rest of us will via tax dollars or most likely BOTH.
I'm don't think pot can be considered healthy, however. To my knowledge, the health of long term pot smokers has not been studied extensively. Not so easy to study when possession is illegal.
These days science says tobacco smoke and BBQ smoke cause cancer. Just a whiff of second hand cigarette smoke can kill you, according to the anti-smokers and tiny particles can seep through apartment walls and kill you. It's hard to believe pot smoke is some mind of magic smoke that does no harm to the lungs.
That said, I personally think it should be legalized and businesses be allowed to open that cater to pot smokers. Bars, Restaurants, whatever should be only be required to hang a sign on the door that says "Pot Smoking Allowed."
I have better things for the cops to do than bust somebody smoking a joint. Or a tobacco smoker, for that matter.
So, with that being the case (bold) what the heck, let's just let 'em loose and figure it out later? How long did it take to finally bring cigarettes and the damage they cause to the forefront? How many people died before it really became a national issue? As for second hand smoke and BBQ smoke, there's still plenty of arguments on both sides of that but either way it's been studied way more than MJ wouldn't you say? I guess the point I'm getting to is many years ago cigarettes were considered great for you and advertised as such. Now look at what we know.
Do you really want to chance it when there's really no reason to except for some people's selfish escapism desires?
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