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Old 12-20-2012, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,138 posts, read 22,804,086 times
Reputation: 14116

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Simple question:

We all know the country is a mess.

Can America be saved or not?

Last edited by Chango; 12-20-2012 at 09:34 AM..
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Old 12-20-2012, 09:33 AM
 
Location: The Triad
34,088 posts, read 82,920,234 times
Reputation: 43660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
Simple question:
Can America be saved or not?
Yes. But it won't be without pain.

The problem of America today is reflected in the 80:20 rule.
We once had a 90:10 economy (and society) which is what set us apart from most.
Even at 80:20 (which we also have had) we can hold our own.

Today though we are closer to a 70:30 ratio.

If (when?) we return to the 90:10 economy we'll again be in high clover.
That should be the long term goal of course but in the mean time we still need to find
some other way to compensate for the 20-30% who aren't able/willing to do for themselves.
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Old 12-20-2012, 01:23 PM
 
Location: War World!
3,226 posts, read 6,636,381 times
Reputation: 4948
This country isn't lost till its lost. Sure we have our problems, but there's many, many other countries that don't have their countries and many, many other countries that already in ruins. This country isn't perfect but I love this country and I'm happy to be here regardless of the all the craziness that goes on. Heck, we live in peace compared to the people who have to deal with Cartel killings in Mexico, the people who slave for the the minerals we ALL use for our electronic devices in the Democratic Republic of Congo. I could keep going, I'm sure you get the point. We're not all that lost. Yet.
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Old 12-20-2012, 06:59 PM
 
1,473 posts, read 3,570,972 times
Reputation: 2087
Need to define terms.

What is lost in terms of a nation of 300 million plus?

What is saved in same terms?
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:26 PM
 
19,012 posts, read 27,562,983 times
Reputation: 20264
Do not remember who said this:

Every nation has a government
That it deserves.
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Old 12-21-2012, 08:44 PM
 
Location: Baldock, hertfordshire, England
768 posts, read 879,564 times
Reputation: 254
America as in that thing set out in 1776?

Yes, its lost. You got democratized. Democracy and freedom don't sit well together.
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Old 12-21-2012, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,390 posts, read 11,597,224 times
Reputation: 7544
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAWS View Post
America as in that thing set out in 1776?

Yes, its lost. You got democratized. Democracy and freedom don't sit well together.
Ha ha and Capitalism cancels both democracy and freedom out. You're democratic enough to shop around and free enough to watch our government get lobbied to death and our presidents earn millions so they can save us from ourselves by paying back those favors.

Ha ha ha, democratic, that's a spin isn't it. I'm laughing so hard I'm crying.
Capitalism and Democracy mix as well as water and oil. IMO, of course.

But lost, no Chango my buddy, we just aren't UNITED anymore. 1/2 of us want to go back and half of us want to move forward. It's going to be awhile until we figure out a direction. Right now we are just stuck, sitting here and waiting out the divide.
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Old 12-21-2012, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,016 posts, read 12,572,543 times
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The USA is not any more lost than it always has been. In many ways it's far better than it has been and in many ways worse.
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Old 12-21-2012, 09:34 PM
 
Location: Florida -
10,213 posts, read 14,824,183 times
Reputation: 21847
The world is full of 'lost' people, a lot of whom live in America. But, then you didn't define your terms.

America is in 'really deep yogurt' politically and economically because our system encourages 'leaders' (politicians) to worry more about playing their own 're-election game', than what is best for America. (Does anyone really doubt this?).

This is how it works:
If a member of Congress or the Senate wants to get re-elected, they must 'bring home the local bacon' to their own constituents'--- who are the only ones who can vote for/against them. To accomplish that, they must add 'pork' to whatever bills pass through their hands ... or introduce their own 'pork bills.' Then, in order to get their 'bills/pork' passed, they must trade votes with other politicians who are doing the same thing. By this means, politicians whom Gallup Polls (and others) say only have a 10-13% overall approval rating ... keep getting re-elected over and over. --(and also keep voting themselves things like lifetime pensions and healthcare, based on single-term service.)

The only way to 'fix the system' is to get the people who are benefiting from it to vote against their own self-interest. (Case in point: Does anyone really believe that if we raise taxes, yet don't strongly limit or cut spending, ... that our politicians will do anything BUT, spend the added tax revenue ... to further their own re-election interests?)
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Old 12-22-2012, 12:31 AM
 
Location: Bike to Surf!
3,078 posts, read 11,060,716 times
Reputation: 3022
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Yes. But it won't be without pain.

The problem of America today is reflected in the 80:20 rule.
We once had a 90:10 economy (and society) which is what set us apart from most.
Even at 80:20 (which we also have had) we can hold our own.

Today though we are closer to a 70:30 ratio.

If (when?) we return to the 90:10 economy we'll again be in high clover.
That should be the long term goal of course but in the mean time we still need to find
some other way to compensate for the 20-30% who aren't able/willing to do for themselves.
Not going to happen. Your 20-30% are going to grow to 30-40% as boomers age, retire, and linger forever thanks to modern medicine. Meanwhile the birth rate bottoms out thanks to the double-whammy of needing nearly 30 years of education to (barely) compete with the Asians and the downward spiral of the economy top-heavy with elderly retirees. There won't be another population boom, immigrants will be scapegoated instead of welcomed for the economic stimulus they could provide, and the growth model economy will die a lingering death as people refuse to change their thinking and way of life.

On the "bright side" the same thing will be happening in Europe, and then China, and then India, so at least misery will have company.

Bye-bye 'merica it was nice knowin ya.
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