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Old 04-10-2013, 06:00 AM
 
Location: Bike to Surf!
3,078 posts, read 11,065,699 times
Reputation: 3023

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerseygal4u View Post
Maybe not all areas have a cap on yearly increaes in rent?
Even if there's a cap, a mortgage payment will never increase over the course of 30-to-15 years. How can we renters budget for housing when we have an unknown % increase coming every 1, 6, or 12 months--even if there are caps? If I buy now and acquire a mortgage that is = to my rent, even if my rent is "ONLY" increased 1% each year, I will save a fortune over the next 5, 10, or especially 30 years.

Quote:
Also,as a renter,what's wrong with painting a space I will be using for a year?
Would you vacuum the back of a dirty cab you happened to flag down? Put in seatbelt cushions? Do you change the oil on a rental car you have for 2 weeks?

Quote:
Renters like nice settings too. All renters don't live in squalor and don't decorate.
I like nice settings, too but I don't look through apartments thinking "oh, that carpet is ugly, but I can pay $300 to change it." When I rent, the place has to be "good enough" right off the bat.
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:19 AM
 
7,280 posts, read 10,954,215 times
Reputation: 11491
Quote:
Originally Posted by sponger42 View Post
Even if there's a cap, a mortgage payment will never increase over the course of 30-to-15 years. How can we renters budget for housing when we have an unknown % increase coming every 1, 6, or 12 months--even if there are caps? If I buy now and acquire a mortgage that is = to my rent, even if my rent is "ONLY" increased 1% each year, I will save a fortune over the next 5, 10, or especially 30 years.

Never heard of an adjustable rate mortage, re-assessment of taxes, increases for utility meter access (not the utility itself), insurance rate increases or other such things?

Would you vacuum the back of a dirty cab you happened to flag down? Put in seatbelt cushions? Do you change the oil on a rental car you have for 2 weeks?

You can refuse to get in the cab. If the owned car is dirty, you own it. Who changes the oil in a car every two weeks and more to the point, who changes the oil in a rental car anyway?

I like nice settings, too but I don't look through apartments thinking "oh, that carpet is ugly, but I can pay $300 to change it." When I rent, the place has to be "good enough" right off the bat.
You can negotiate the have the carpets changed. In fact, most landlords will be happy to have the carpets changed if you want to pay for it. Another fact, if you rent for any length of time, often the carpets are changed out for new tenants anyway. Besides that though, if you don't have the money for new carpets in a home, too bad. You can still afford the mortgage but maybe not new carpets. In a rental, you can simply move if you want.

There is no right or wrong on this topic. Renting has benefits as does home ownership. For both there are government subsidies (you know, for the experts on immorality) and each has both benefits and detractions.
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:49 AM
 
14,400 posts, read 14,310,746 times
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Society has made a series of policy decisions by enacting the tax code which among other things, establishes a deduction for the interest that home owners pay on mortgages. Let me begin by saying I am in no way affiliated with the real estate business. Nevertheless, observations I have made in my life make me believe this deduction is probably in the country's best interest.

My family has rented property over the years and what we have always found is that even the best renter doesn't take care of the property in the same fashion that a mediocre owner does. He has no incentive to do so. Every screw he buys to fix a broken shelf or every furnace filter he purchases and puts in the furnace is money out of his own pocket. If he leaves the home, others will take advantage of the improvements he made. My parents required me to help clean up damaged rental property as a child on numerous occasions. What I saw, still stays with me. I saw broken windows, cigarettes ground into the carpet, food cooked on the burner of a stove, and deliberate damage done to mirrors.

I believe even the best landlord/tenant relationship is lacking when it compares to an individual owning his own home. The only situations that I ever found analogous to what I'm describing above were situations where a home was being foreclosed upon. You don't damage your own property. You don't allow your children to damage your property. You don't do that because of simple pride of ownership and because you'll suffer a direct financial loss if you do such things.

Well maintained property serves the individual, the public, and the nation better than poorly maintained property does. That justifies the tax credit and public policies which encourage private home ownership.
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Old 04-10-2013, 04:06 PM
 
28,115 posts, read 63,680,034 times
Reputation: 23268
Quote:
Originally Posted by derosterreich View Post
I assume you forced her to compensate you for time and materials or she should have been sued. That abhorrent behavior, and I would have took them both to court if they refused.
Yes... it took awhile because she relocated to the east coast.

The think is my tenant of 2 years is and was golden... zero problems.

I think she was more shocked than I was.

Looking back... I should have expected trouble because experience has taught me the boyfriend/girlfriend situations often change in an instant.

I have had a tenant get a restraining order on her boyfriend and give me a copy and a few days later they are back together...

Seems most younger couples I know have a breakup with a 50/50 chance they get back together...
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:29 AM
 
9,000 posts, read 10,180,605 times
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I've owned homes & I've rented. It makes no difference to me. A place is a place.
Even if you think you have "freedom" when you own, you don't.
It's all an illusion...... I am amused though, at how homeowners like to be smug at renters.
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Bike to Surf!
3,078 posts, read 11,065,699 times
Reputation: 3023
Quote:
Originally Posted by believe007 View Post
Even if you think you have "freedom" when you own, you don't.
It's all an illusion...... I am amused though, at how homeowners like to be smug at renters.
As a renter, I wouldn't even go so far as to say I want "freedom". What I want is stability. Here is my list of negatives that drive me to want to own rather than rent:

- No Privacy. The Landlord can invade my space at any time under the auspices of an "emergency." She can say she smelled smoke and had to check for fire, and I have little-to-no recourse to keep her out if she decides to ignore my . I can't change the locks, I can't physically prevent her "inspections", the best I can do is complain to the city or the police, but that's unlikely to solve the problem. I can move, but--as I said--I'd like stability, and there's no garantee the next landlord won't be just as bad or worse. No one is going to legally invade your property--unless your house is actually on fire, if you are a homeowner.

- No stability. I'm not lucky enough to live in a rent-controlled area, so once my contract is up my LL could raise the rent 400% and I couldn't say boo about it. Pretty much the longest term you can plan for, as a renter, is one year. Even if you have the nicest LL on the planet, they can get into money troubles or other situations that make it convenient for them to raise your rent or throw you out at the end of your contracted period. You might get a few months' grace based on your state rental laws, but then you're out looking for a new place to stay. As a homeowner, you might see increases in taxes and fees, but these are usually small adjustments which affect hundreds of other homeowners. Radical changes are unlikely, as neighborhoods/towns can band together to fight. Nobody is going to help me if my rent goes up 100%, but I bet you could march on city hall with half the town if your property taxes went up just 2%.

- No investment. Any money you put into the property goes down the drain. Not just rent, but any repairs you make on your own. That leaves you the undesirable option of waiting until the LL hires the slowest and cheapest service to make the minimal repairs to whatever is broken, and if it's not completely broken, few are the landlords who will fix it. For instance, I had a water heater which was either clogged with sediment or with one bad heating element. It held enough hot water for one lukewarm shower. Since the shower did warm up, the LL wouldn't fix the water heater. I could do it on my own dime, or live with the annoyance.

Of course, the interest you pay on a home mortgage goes down the drain, just like rent. As I've said before, I disagree with the government subsidizing that interest by deducting it from your taxable income. I view homeowners as wealthy individuals who do not need that government assistance. I believe that the reasons I've cited above are incentive enough for anyone--who has the means and intends to stay in one place for at least 5 years--to own.
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Old 04-12-2013, 09:59 AM
Status: "119 N/A" (set 26 days ago)
 
12,964 posts, read 13,679,366 times
Reputation: 9695
It might be a matter of time and place, but I don't know many people who celebrate when they sell their house. I think there are intrinsic rewards or benefits to owning and renting based on a particular person's life style. An associate of mine just bought a nice home in the upper $100's price range and he said the seller had to bring money to close the deal, So much for investment.

Every time there is a mill levy increase, tax hike or your insurance goes up there goes your financial stability. There are many updates and improvements you can do to a home you own that won't add a cent to the value of it. Many people do these to improve their own quality of life and should not expect a buyer to appreciate or value it the same.

You might have heard the term "fattening frogs for snakes" that's why renters think they shouldn't improve a house they are renting. The only reason I can think of to own a home is if you are going to have kids or pets. Pets can destroy properties indoors and out so you will be paying for it one way or another. Raising kids might mean you'll be making a life style change that would have you in one place for at least 10-15 years while they finish school.
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Old 04-12-2013, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Bike to Surf!
3,078 posts, read 11,065,699 times
Reputation: 3023
Quote:
Originally Posted by thriftylefty View Post
Every time there is a mill levy increase, tax hike or your insurance goes up there goes your financial stability.
Really? Around here people call 1.7% high for property tax. So, lets say, on a 300K house, you have a base tax of $425/month. The city government raises taxes a 10th of a point, to 1.8%, a 6% tax hike. Now your tax burden is 450/month or an extra $25/month. How often do property tax hikes like this come about? I'm guessing it's not every 6-12 months.

One place I rented, started at $1060/month. After my 6-month contract was up, the owner upped the rent to $1150, a monthly increase of $90. Even if he only increased the rent by 6%, that would translate into $64/month.

Even if you're lucky enough to live in a rent-controlled apartment (which you are just as married to as a house, since you need to be there for years to qualify for rent control) the maximum allowable increase (NYC example) is 7.5% every two years, or 3.75% every year.

Compare a 300K house with property taxes at 1.7%, and a nice 3.5% loan; you're throwing away $10,500 in interest, or $875/month. Lets say you find a (tiny) rent-controlled apartment that costs the same (so you're throwing away the same amount of money: Rent = Interest Payment)

House Tax Burden Increase for a 1/10th point tax increase: $25/month.
Rental Cost Increase for a rent increase of the rent-controlled limit: $32/month.

And, as you pay down the loan, that money you give to the bank shrinks every year. There is no similar arrangement when it comes to rent. Rent goes up over time and you have to "throw away" more money. With each loan payment on a house you "throw away" less money, offsetting the increases in taxes, insurance, and fees.

And the real kicker here is the fact that--as a renter in an non-rent-controlled apartment (which most are)--you STILL pay for tax, insurance, and fee increases on the property, because the owner is pretty much CERTAIN to transfer those fees to you through rent increases, along with an arbitrary increase because they want more money. And your only recourse is to move, forefeiting all those nice improvements you made to your rental, maybe even having to pay to have them restored to the original condition!

Renting makes ZERO sense financially, unless you simply have no choice because you can't afford to buy, or you plan to move (Or if the housing market is clearly overheated as in 2006). That's why, as a renter--even though I want to own--I see the tax break on housing interest payments as a big "F-U" to the poor or mobile population who can't buy a house. I think it should be done away with, but I still think people should be encouraged to buy if they can.

I'd also like to see that tax break eliminated to drive down housing prices a bit, making it a better deal for me to buy in. It's probably going to be eliminated eventually, so I'd rather it happen now--allowing me to allocate funds for housing correctly--rather than at some random date in the future.
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:31 AM
 
486 posts, read 863,578 times
Reputation: 619
than the next. It always seems like a bunch of brain washing from the baby boomer generation on everyone else.[/quote]

This baby boomer doesn't think so. If someone is going to use the term "brain washing" that should
be directed to those in the industry who dooped a lot of people (banking, real estate).
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:55 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,493 posts, read 4,554,281 times
Reputation: 3026
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_the_facts View Post
American society has long prized home ownership (ie: the "American Dream") and looked down upon renting. Do you agree with this element of American culture?

Personally, I do not and believe the decision to own or rent is a matter of personal choice. Home ownership should not be subsidized like it currently is by the government (Fannie, Freddie, mortgage interest deduction, bankruptcy protections, etc.,), especially considering that renting is in many ways better for society (better for the environment and allows for more labor market flexibility).
I have no problem with people having that view. However, to me it can be a problem when people make it an obsesion that interferes in other aspects of life to the point of forgetting to enjoy life and at the expense of the well being of loved ones. Or maybe to the point of forgetting values to achieve the dream. It is not different that other goals people may have. How do they balance those goals with other things in life?
For example, my goal was to make sure I have a paid home. Why? Because when I die I wanted to make sure my wife will not have any worries of where she can live without the fear of getting evicted. Also so if necessary sell the house to have money to subsist with more modest means if necessary. My wife understood why I wanted to make sure we have a paid house and ensured to administer our money wisely. Along the way we also made sure we did no miss enjoyment in life and with raising our kids. We did not deprive ourselves of taking trips, we just took them in the least expensive ways. We had an attitude that many of the things others want to have were really things we did not need so we did not buy them. Now? We are now retired and we can afford more luxuries, not rich but comfortable. Our kids were not deprived of the things in life and of enjoying a happy life as we raised them. Take care.
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