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Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,297 posts, read 14,164,711 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbradleyc
.....Imagine an irresponsible, unbalanced person deciding one day that they wanted to die and were going out in a blaze of glory, so they went on a huge shopping spree of restaurants, travel, concerts, whatever they could charge on a credit card knowing that they would never have to repay it, then got to die on the federal insurance plan. That could be very destabilizing to the economy, seriously. Insurance would go through the roof, whether it was private or government.......
I don't think this is much of a concern. People could do that right now, and sometimes do, but for the most part depressed people don't feel pleasure in doing much of anything.
I would think that just as tragic...maybe more so... considering that with some help and counseling their life could have been turned around.
Therapy and pills do NOT work for everyone. I've seen that first hand from a dear friend of mine, who did eventually kill herself.
While I miss my friend, I am glad she is free from her pain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by purehuman
Doctors must NOT be givin a license to kill...If that happens there will also be others who WANTED TO LIVE who will die. Being angry doesn't change that.
I'm not angry, I'm furious that humans care more for the welfare of other species than their own species.
As for the "license to kill" thing, dude, there are COUNTLESS stories of nurses and doctors helping patients ALREADY. How as a Dr. could you sit there and watch someone in excruciating pain beg you to help end their suffering and you do nothing? That goes against EVERYTHING you as a Dr. are supposed to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgordeeva
Would you feel this way if you had a very close family member who felt this way? What if it was your child? Would you actually be okay with that person killing themselves? What do you think about people who have children? Should they just abandon and traumatize them forever?
If it were my child (I am a step mom to a clinically depressed teenage daughter who has been hospitalized multiple times for cutting, fighting, reckless behavior, and yes suicide attempts), I wouldn't want her/him in pain, and suffering. I would exhaust all other options first, but then and only then, I would let them go, if that is what they wanted.
You see, I want my children happy and not hurting, before I consider my own hurt if they were gone. My desire for her/him to stay and be in my life, does NOT trump their quality of life and their choice to take action.
Quote:
Originally Posted by purehuman
or they're denied food or medicines to help them...it's called "passive euthanasia" when the person dies because of something that's NOT done to help them...sounds pretty cruel to me. Active euthanasia is when something is done TO the ailing patient to hasten their deaths. Warning - Are You Being Targeted For Euthanasia?
In my living will, that's called a DNR. I don't want life support, if I can't do it on my own, let me go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GJJG2012
Much of modern medicine is pills that do nothing, pills with dozens of side effects, pills that give people another condition so they require another prescription, pills that kill 125,000 a year in USA.
Not to mention that the majority of modern "Western" medicine was derived from NATURAL plants and such.
Aspirin came from willow bark, digitalis (heart med) came from foxglove, some eye drops and muscle relaxers/mood stimulators came from belladonna, oral pain meds for toothaches came from clove oils, narcotic pain meds came from opium, many cough meds come from a variety of herbs and plants such as mallow, yarrow, horehound, licorice, honey, and lemon, etc...
If I'm sick; I go to the herb garden first, and if that doesn't work then and only then do I reach for the pills; with all the side effects from pharmaceuticals, I think I'm better off taking my chances with mother nature's medicine cabinet, lol!
Therapy and pills do NOT work for everyone. I've seen that first hand from a dear friend of mine, who did eventually kill herself.
While I miss my friend, I am glad she is free from her pain.
I'm not angry, I'm furious that humans care more for the welfare of other species than their own species.
As for the "license to kill" thing, dude, there are COUNTLESS stories of nurses and doctors helping patients ALREADY. How as a Dr. could you sit there and watch someone in excruciating pain beg you to help end their suffering and you do nothing? That goes against EVERYTHING you as a Dr. are supposed to do.
If it were my child (I am a step mom to a clinically depressed teenage daughter who has been hospitalized multiple times for cutting, fighting, reckless behavior, and yes suicide attempts), I wouldn't want her/him in pain, and suffering. I would exhaust all other options first, but then and only then, I would let them go, if that is what they wanted.
You see, I want my children happy and not hurting, before I consider my own hurt if they were gone. My desire for her/him to stay and be in my life, does NOT trump their quality of life and their choice to take action.
In my living will, that's called a DNR. I don't want life support, if I can't do it on my own, let me go.
Not to mention that the majority of modern "Western" medicine was derived from NATURAL plants and such.
Aspirin came from willow bark, digitalis (heart med) came from foxglove, some eye drops and muscle relaxers/mood stimulators came from belladonna, oral pain meds for toothaches came from clove oils, narcotic pain meds came from opium, many cough meds come from a variety of herbs and plants such as mallow, yarrow, horehound, licorice, honey, and lemon, etc...
If I'm sick; I go to the herb garden first, and if that doesn't work then and only then do I reach for the pills; with all the side effects from pharmaceuticals, I think I'm better off taking my chances with mother nature's medicine cabinet, lol!
Have you found the root cause of your step-daughter's depression? Did something bad happen to her in her childhood? I like to believe that there is hope for everyone, especially the really young ones. If someone knows they are truly loved and needed, it can keep them from killing themselves.
Euthanasia is typically utilized for those with an already terminal illness, with little or no hope of recovery. Sure the clinically depressed person may be more willing to "give up" but I don't think the diagnosis of depression should automatically take away their rights to handle their own care. Also, a positive mental attitude is often necessary for a recovery from major illness, and if the person has mentally given up, withholding any theoretical euthanasia won't help the patient's prognosis much anyway.
We do have a grey area where euthanasia is concerned; when a person is a DNRCC (no medical life-saving intervention whatsoever) and in hospice, they're given regular doses of morphine and sedatives to give them "comfort", but also helps them along toward the inevitable.
Have you found the root cause of your step-daughter's depression? Did something bad happen to her in her childhood? I like to believe that there is hope for everyone, especially the really young ones. If someone knows they are truly loved and needed, it can keep them from killing themselves.
Yeah, her Mom is a b**ch to her, her grandpa is a cop, and she keeps getting beat up due to the other kids thinking she is a snitch, and she wants to live with us; and her mother uses her as a pawn, to hurt her Dad, whom hasn't been interested in the mom since the mid 90's.
There are other things as well, but that's the gist.
Yes! Yes! Yes, people should have the option of euthanasia.
Let's be real, even if you're having a crappy few years, take this way out, you're dead. You won't know IF your life would have gotten better IF you waited. Life can go both ways, good and bad. But if you're dead, you won't care. The people who say they're glad they didn't commit suicide, can ONLY say that BECAUSE they're alive. If they did it, they wouldn't be dead saying, "I wish I wouldn't have done it, I could be doing XYZ right now". First, even if the dead do talk, they don't know the future. Second, they're dead, they have no future.
Obviously anyone here who says depression is curable knows absolutely nothing about the disease. It can be "cured" if it's due to a specific reason or something happened in your life recently. But if it's chemical, aka hereditary, aka clinical depression, then it's NOT curable, ONLY MANAGED.
I think a few posters truly captured what it is like to live with clinical depression. It's not living a lot of times, it's being alive.
Think about the worst day in your life. That has been my xbf's life.....except for a two year stint when the drugs actually worked, oh and the 10 years he was a drug addict because it was the only thing that helped him cope. If he wanted out, I'd happily help him. It would break my heart to have him be gone, but it breaks my heart to know how much he's suffering.
I've been there. My last bout of depression lasted for over a year. You aren't living, you are alive (as a previous poster stated so eloquently). It took me almost a year to find a medication combination that worked. And it ended up being some very odd combination that just happened to work. Therapy wasn't helping either. And then it stopped working and bam, depression returned.
The reason I say euthanasia should be an option.....is because there are many who feel suicide is wrong (for whatever reason). And they are suffering so badly, but just go on living their life, as crappy as it is, because they have no way to escape.
I struggled with depression for years. In part due a past traumatic event from my childhood. I remember being on the pills and just feeling blah. It was no fun. Most kill your sex drive and cause you to just feel like ****. For me I became more depressed and the doctors kept wanting to up the dosage which I thought was useless. I don't know what changed but I remember after 9/11 I just became very paranoid about everything. I thought I had been attacked by anthrax and thought I was gonna die and just got sucked into the news media. Then one day I was down at the beach and I just felt a calmness come over me and everything was gonna be alright. I still struggle with depression at times but I don't know if medication is the answer. I think currently right now I'm depressed because I'm frustrated with my job and I'm not where I want to be. Okay I'm getting off topic. I tried therapy and just felt like it was a bitching session, why pay someone to hear you *****. Now I've found ways to cope and like the cliche take it one day at a time.
Should they be allowed to kill themselves I don't know if I have an answer for it. I think I can see both sides of the issue, they may feel it is there only escape.
What do you think? Do you think some depressed people can't be cured? Have you been hopelessly depressed or known anyone who could not get over their demons? Is anyone truly hopeless and would be better off dead?
It doesn't matter what I think. What matters is the medical evidence.
This thread fails because it doesn't mention the fact that there are different forms of Depression. Yes, one form is hereditary, as in genetic. That particular form is very severe. The only treatment with some positive effect is shock treatment. Yes, shock treatment.
The Freudian nonsense that Depression is "anger turned inward" has caused more harm and nothing good.
Another form of Depression is learned, and the third form is widely believed to be caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain.
Can you unlearn Depression? Sure, but that would require being in an highly structured and supervised environment where you can unlearn it. And, why yes, it takes longer than 28 days or 6-weeks or whatever.
Drugs are often effective in reducing the symptoms in the third form of Depression, so that one can function relatively normally, but it is not a cure.
Since you cannot know whatever pain these people know, if they want to off themselves, that's their business. I'd rather have them go alone, than take others with them.
Clinically...
I'm not angry, I'm furious that humans care more for the welfare of other species than their own species.
In my living will, that's called a DNR. I don't want life support, if I can't do it on my own, let me go.
That's not true..not at all. Maybe you're just angry ( furious) and it seems like that...just because you don't believe in euthanasia doesn't (in any way) mean that you don't care or love as much as someone who does..
I don't consider it compassionate nor loving (in any way) to allow someone to die of thirst.
Mother Nature's medicine cabinet is amazing.
Yes! Yes! Yes, people should have the option of euthanasia.
Let's be real, even if you're having a crappy few years, take this way out, you're dead. You won't know IF your life would have gotten better IF you waited. Life can go both ways, good and bad. But if you're dead, you won't care. The people who say they're glad they didn't commit suicide, can ONLY say that BECAUSE they're alive. If they did it, they wouldn't be dead saying, "I wish I wouldn't have done it, I could be doing XYZ right now". First, even if the dead do talk, they don't know the future. Second, they're dead, they have no future.
Obviously anyone here who says depression is curable knows absolutely nothing about the disease. It can be "cured" if it's due to a specific reason or something happened in your life recently. But if it's chemical, aka hereditary, aka clinical depression, then it's NOT curable, ONLY MANAGED.
I think a few posters truly captured what it is like to live with clinical depression. It's not living a lot of times, it's being alive.
Think about the worst day in your life. That has been my xbf's life.....except for a two year stint when the drugs actually worked, oh and the 10 years he was a drug addict because it was the only thing that helped him cope. If he wanted out, I'd happily help him. It would break my heart to have him be gone, but it breaks my heart to know how much he's suffering.
I've been there. My last bout of depression lasted for over a year. You aren't living, you are alive (as a previous poster stated so eloquently). It took me almost a year to find a medication combination that worked. And it ended up being some very odd combination that just happened to work. Therapy wasn't helping either. And then it stopped working and bam, depression returned.
The reason I say euthanasia should be an option.....is because there are many who feel suicide is wrong (for whatever reason). And they are suffering so badly, but just go on living their life, as crappy as it is, because they have no way to escape.
Everyone should be allowed an out.
So no one really knows why clinically depressed people are depressed? Why do they say they are so depressed? Even if they have a perfect life with plenty of money and people who love them, they still can't find a reason to live?
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