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You are the one that is misinformed. Arabs are fully welcome to live in Israel, and MANY do. 14% of the Israeli population is Arab. The Israeli government has never kicked out anyone just for being Arab or anything else. I knew your post was going to be a doozy when you went out of your way to say you had no bone to pick in this fight before putting forward a clearly heavily biased position.
You are massively misunderstanding my post. I'm never said that Israel is kicking Arabs out of Israel currently, but once Palestinians fled during the wars (either 1967 or 1973 take your pick), their abandoned lands were annexed by Israel, and those Palestinians were not allowed to return, hence the refugee camps in Jordan and Lebanon. This is not a question of bias, it is true fact. Unless you dispute that the Palestinians currently in the camps did not own land that Israel currently occupies? That they gladly turned over their lands while they suffered in the misery and squalor of the refugee camps? If you dispute this then I dont know what to say. Israeli politicians have been insistent in not alloweing those refugees to return, nor will they agree to return Israel to its 1947 borders that was sanctioned by the UN. This is easily researchable by yourself if you doubt me. Practically the whole UN agrees. Israel is saved only by the US refusing to allow the UN sanction Israel for this. That is all I'm saying.
You are massively misunderstanding my post. I'm never said that Israel is kicking Arabs out of Israel currently, but once Palestinians fled during the wars (either 1967 or 1973 take your pick), their abandoned lands were annexed by Israel, and those Palestinians were not allowed to return, hence the refugee camps in Jordan and Lebanon. This is not a question of bias, it is true fact. Unless you dispute that the Palestinians currently in the camps did not own land that Israel currently occupies? That they gladly turned over their lands while they suffered in the misery and squalor of the refugee camps? If you dispute this then I dont know what to say. Israeli politicians have been insistent in not alloweing those refugees to return, nor will they agree to return Israel to its 1947 borders that was sanctioned by the UN. This is easily researchable by yourself if you doubt me. Practically the whole UN agrees. Israel is saved only by the US refusing to allow the UN sanction Israel for this. That is all I'm saying.
You are stating that Israel should be sanctioned even though they have not broken any international laws. Talk about a Kangaroo Court. Don't you think sanctions should only be put in place when someone breaks international law?
P.S. I've posted this before, but here is why Israel is in compliance with international law...
You are massively misunderstanding my post. I'm never said that Israel is kicking Arabs out of Israel currently, but once Palestinians fled during the wars (either 1967 or 1973 take your pick), their abandoned lands were annexed by Israel, and those Palestinians were not allowed to return, hence the refugee camps in Jordan and Lebanon. This is not a question of bias, it is true fact. Unless you dispute that the Palestinians currently in the camps did not own land that Israel currently occupies? That they gladly turned over their lands while they suffered in the misery and squalor of the refugee camps? If you dispute this then I dont know what to say. Israeli politicians have been insistent in not alloweing those refugees to return, nor will they agree to return Israel to its 1947 borders that was sanctioned by the UN. This is easily researchable by yourself if you doubt me. Practically the whole UN agrees. Israel is saved only by the US refusing to allow the UN sanction Israel for this. That is all I'm saying.
Who cares what the Palestinians think. Who cares what the UN thinks. They've lost all the wars you've listed. In what other nation has the losers got to set the rules for the winners?? In what other nation have the children and grandchildren (who were never born there) of the losers got to set the rules for the winning nation??
Who cares what the Palestinians think. Who cares what the UN thinks. They've lost all the wars you've listed. In what other nation has the losers got to set the rules for the winners?? In what other nation have the children and grandchildren (who were never born there) of the losers got to set the rules for the winning nation??
This is a ridiculous point of view that will simply result in Israel becoming more and more isolated. Even a number of Muslim countries are coming around to the point of view that Israel is here to stay. Egypt, Jordan, and Turkey all recognize Israel and despite ups and downs maintain diplomatic relations with her. Saudi Arabia and most other Gulf Arab nations would recognize Israel if some resolution could be reached on the Palestinian Question.
The United Nations voted to create Israel, but also voted to partition Palestine into both a Jewish and Arab state. When people ask me if I support Israel, I say absolutely. However, the Israel I support is one much closer in size to its 1967 borders than the one some hardliners want.
I guess Israel could truly try to "go it alone" and ignore what every other country in the world thinks. The USA has tried for literally decades to bring about a resolution to this conflict. Both Israel and the Palestinians were to blame for the failure of the "Kerry Talks" earlier this year. However, many of the statements made by Israeli cabinet ministers were not helpful.
You are going to find out slowly, gradually, that Israel's position and occupation of a far greater population of Palestinians on the West Bank is simply untenable. Gradually, more nations will grant recognition to a nation of "Palestine". You are going to see more boycotts and more protests until American and European businesses can no longer ignore them.
Wise people would take stock of their situation and try to work out some kind of a peace deal. It will probably involve giving back much of the West Bank, but the alternatives are worse for Israel. I know you don't want to accept this, but I would encourage you and other Israel supporters to look at the hard facts. The status quo isn't going to work.
I think creating Israel was a good idea but maybe a better organisation with the local population would have avoided the problems this (beautiful) country is facing right now
I think creating Israel was a good idea but maybe a better organisation with the local population would have avoided the problems this (beautiful) country is facing right now
One needs to keep in mind that of the original population of Israel 80% were local to the region and thus would've followed a more tribal warfare in 1948 inline with the Arabs. As like the surrounding Arab countries they did not have political ability by themselves in order to run a country. The other 20% did have that ability since they mostly came to the Mandate (pre-WW2) European educated with the understandings of politics. They attempted to follow European standards in dealing with others and it was an epic failure. Keep in in mind this was also true of the Arabs, except that the Arabs had "advisers" from European countries. But the Arabs from the surrounding Arab countries who were tribal cared more for a land grab than any matter of religion. Being tribal meant that thought they would gain land, items of value and power.
Once Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt crossed the mandate borders, the UN mandate was over. It was a war between local Jews and an Arab invasion. The Arabs arrived with primarily British supplied tanks and weapons and the Jews jeeps and portable artillery. The Jews were already in the mindset of nowhere to go and the Arab forces (feet on the ground) saw over time that they had no tribal gains and many simply left. Thus the UN may have initiated a proposed border for the Jews, but when the Arabs invaded the region that proposed border was gone and all the following resolutions were (as they are now) worthless. Thus the only ones who created Israel are the Jews themselves.
This is a ridiculous point of view that will simply result in Israel becoming more and more isolated. Even a number of Muslim countries are coming around to the point of view that Israel is here to stay. Egypt, Jordan, and Turkey all recognize Israel and despite ups and downs maintain diplomatic relations with her. Saudi Arabia and most other Gulf Arab nations would recognize Israel if some resolution could be reached on the Palestinian Question.
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That's your opinion. I am American who works in numerous nations in the Middle East. And nearly every Arab I've ever spoken to does not care about the Palestinians (not my country, not my problem attitude). The Arab leaders give it lip service and that's about it. It's like the pledge conference they just had last weekend. I guarantee it will be just like the 2009 one where Billions were pledged and the Arabs paid up around 10%. The Europeans and the US paid up only because of reality of wanting to continue to have business dealings with Arab nations and nothing to do with Palestinians. If the Europeans and the US really cared, don't you think Kurdistan would exist by now?
The Europeans are simply "Yes Men" to the Arabs. Why? Because they know where their oil comes from. Once the power of oil is taken away from the Arabs, then the Arab strength will become like most of Africa and enter the who cares phase.
The United Nations voted to create Israel, but also voted to partition Palestine into both a Jewish and Arab state. When people ask me if I support Israel, I say absolutely. However, the Israel I support is one much closer in size to its 1967 borders than the one some hardliners want.
Israel accepted the partition, but no Arab state did. Therefore, the proposed UN partition is not legally valid. It's like if a mediator proposes a solution to a union strike, but only one side accepts. Instead of accepting the neighboring Arab states tried to wipe Israel off the face of the earth.
Who cares what the Palestinians think. Who cares what the UN thinks. They've lost all the wars you've listed. In what other nation has the losers got to set the rules for the winners?? In what other nation have the children and grandchildren (who were never born there) of the losers got to set the rules for the winning nation??
This is a perfect example of the incredibly arrogant attitude that Jews have and yet in the same breath they will wail about why they cannot find peace, why so many are determined to see them wiped off the earth, why anti semitism has been on the rise in so many countries. They have single handedly created generations of Palestinians willing to blow themselves up if it means taking just one Jewish life. And this cycle will continue for generations to come.
And you are mistaken. The Palestinians may have lost all the battles thus far...the war is still ongoing. The more I see of this callous Jewish behavior, the more I start to pull for the underdog, and I'm a christian who grew up disliking muslims for many reasons, but on this, I think they have the moral high ground.
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