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The maturity level of people has declined over time. Most people in their twenties act like teenagers. Don't believe me- just look at all the stupid fantasy and kiddie movies they go to. Guys especially act very immature, but if youg women weren't impressed with their antics, they'd stop doing it.
I think 21 is reasonable. I dislike this idea of treating older and older people like children. What's next, 35?
I don't think we should treat 18 year olds any differently then we do today. Science shows that their taking mind altering drugs, including alcohol, is bad for brain development. Use of drugs, almost all drugs, after 25 shows little effect on the brain outside of heavy use and addiction.
I've often heard the stat "the brain does not fully develop until 25" bandied around like it's some sort of hard fact, but I'm skeptical of it. I think this is another wives' tale like the "only use 10 percent of your brain" thing. The brain is always developing and changing until you die, you can't pick some random cutoff. It's also culturally relative, in China you're considered an adult at 13 for example. It's only in the US and maybe to a lesser extentother Western countries where you have the "kidult" phenomenon of 25, 27, 32 year olds still living with their mommies and even then this is more of a middle class luxury....
In southern Europe the kids from working class families live at home because their jobs, if they have one, do not allow them to afford an apartment of their own. Solidly middle class kids will move out, and like the U.S. will happily do it on their parents' subsidy.
They used to be. WWII tanks, ships and bombers were operated by 20-24 year olds. Women had babies and 18 and took care of them, too. After WWII, people started having extended childhoods: staying in school longer, starting work later, being taken care of by their parents longer, not being responsible until later in life. I've heard it referred to as the infantalization of America.
Kind of not really. Despite being old enough to go to war from 18-20, you couldn't vote until the 1970s so they weren't trusted (for whatever reason) to vote. Now 18-20 are old enough to vote and willingly go to war but not old enough to drink. I guess it's not a cut and dry thing. I think 21 should be the modern era "true adult" measure as most are living somewhat on their own with college.
Kind of not really. Despite being old enough to go to war from 18-20, you couldn't vote until the 1970s so they weren't trusted (for whatever reason) to vote. Now 18-20 are old enough to vote and willingly go to war but not old enough to drink. I guess it's not a cut and dry thing. I think 21 should be the modern era "true adult" measure as most are living somewhat on their own with college.
It used to be thought that people needed to be a certain age to have the judgement to vote: have some experience with life before they could make decisions that effect others.
War was always fought by men old enough to wield weapons. Certainly, no 18 - 25 year old ever commanded a battleship, but they operated and maintained all the complicated mechanical systems that made the ship go.
The army looks a lot older today than it did seventy or even forty years ago. Draftees vs. career soldiers and reservists, I guess. Getting like France's old grognards, maybe.
The drinking thing is another case where responsibility seems to have left the building. Binge drinking, spring break, were much less usual in the past. This is a clear case of people coming to maturity later.
College is the same way. I was reading that a lot of parents today want their kids to "have the college experience." They went to Disney world when they were young, now they should go to college. And colleges are providing the experience their customers expect, support of all kinds without limit, health club type gyms, hotel quality student housing, restaurant quality cafeterias. And if you didn't succeed the first time..or second..or nth, you can try again. Before, if you failed you might get one more shot. If you flunked out a second time, you were done.
It's another instance of protracted childhood. Nothing you do has any consequences. Food, room, entertainment, i.e., the classroom, is free or next to it. So you don't appreciate it or make the most of it.
It used to be thought that people needed to be a certain age to have the judgement to vote: have some experience with life before they could make decisions that effect others.
If we went by that some would argue one needs to be as old as the lower bound for a senator, 30 years old. The issue is youth are historically apathetic to voting because there aren't issue that relate to them since the draft ended.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troyfan
War was always fought by men old enough to wield weapons. Certainly, no 18 - 25 year old ever commanded a battleship, but they operated and maintained all the complicated mechanical systems that made the ship go.
The army looks a lot older today than it did seventy or even forty years ago. Draftees vs. career soldiers and reservists, I guess. Getting like France's old grognards, maybe.
The drinking thing is another case where responsibility seems to have left the building. Binge drinking, spring break, were much less usual in the past. This is a clear case of people coming to maturity later.
A few issues here.
1) The draft is a non-starter as we saw with the backlash to the rumors of an Iraq war, we would have likely seen HUGE protests because things would be more organized due to the internet rather than hearing about protest maybe the next day on the evening news.
2) So an 18-20 year old is mature enough to shoot a gun but not mature enough to drink... I think the gun in their hand is much more dangerous than the beer would be.
3) I think the problem with drinking is as much as it isn't taboo, it is. We may glorify it in someways but at the same time, we don't allow people to realize the effects of drugs on a controlled environment. A family letting a kid taste their first beer and realize the taste isn't the glamorous way it is with marketing is a good way to make people mature on it.
4) As I mentioned with the taboo, that somewhat increases binge drinking. When you are young and don't have a frame of reference for how much is too much, you are more likely to take it too far. When it's taboo, you won't know your boundaries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troyfan
College is the same way. I was reading that a lot of parents today want their kids to "have the college experience." They went to Disney world when they were young, now they should go to college. And colleges are providing the experience their customers expect, support of all kinds without limit, health club type gyms, hotel quality student housing, restaurant quality cafeterias. And if you didn't succeed the first time..or second..or nth, you can try again. Before, if you failed you might get one more shot. If you flunked out a second time, you were done.
It's another instance of protracted childhood. Nothing you do has any consequences. Food, room, entertainment, i.e., the classroom, is free or next to it. So you don't appreciate it or make the most of it.
This I blame on sibling parents who wanted gen X and more so millennials to believe they all were special individual little snowflakes and didn't act like parents. If parents' didn't come down on kids for failing and rather give them second, third, fourth chances, etc.; don't you think they would expect it in college. As for college, it didn't help with helicopter parenting to turn them into adults either. I realize some blame goes both ways but most relies on the parents. It's like the anti-drug commercial where the son is asked by his father why did he start whatever drug he was caught with and the son replied, from you.
I think serving in war, driving, drinking, voting, or even marriage and parenthood have little to do with measuring adulthood. Society just makes up average ages to confer those rights and privileges. And since we can't measure the development of each other's brains, I would confer the term "adult" only on people who are financially independent.
If we live with family members we can be termed adults only if we are responsible for supporting them, or at least contributing an honest FAIR SHARE of running a group household. Age has nothing to do with it for me. I don't see people who constantly rely on others for their support as adults.
In what way?
Physically
Mentally
Emotionally
Accepted behavior
Accountability and Responsibility
If you want to just use the brain development marker, there are physiological reasons to say so (I think I alluded to this in past in a similar post) and another person already posted good content. However, much of being an adult is BEHAVIOR and accepted levels of accountability and responsibility. In ages past, and in some cultures in particular with strong parenting, adult behaviors and responsibilities are EXPECTED at earlier chronological ages. Hence, one can find an adult 'acting' person in their teens or even younger. So it's not a chronological marker. As Jukesgrrl aptly pointed out, adult hood is most readily apparent based upon observing one's behavior. Some never outgrow the dependency and are in most every way but physically still 'children'.
From a historical context many 12 year olds have assumed great responsibilities toward family and themselves due to economic hardship. The extended 'childhood' syndrome I would attribute to corporate America's desire to have easily malleable minds from which to use 'demand creation' techniques (mass media marketing et al) to make them a "Happy Consumer Unit".
To understand this better watch The Century of Self BBC special produced by Adam Curtis. It should be mandatory viewing for teens. See, people have a more difficult time making "Adult" decisions if they are kept like a programmed child with expectations of what they need to be 'fulfilled' at each respective stage of chronological progression.
"In the last five years, a small number of the country's largest industrial corporations has acquired more public communications power - including ownership of the news - than any private businesses have ever before possessed in world history. Nothing in earlier history matches the corporate group's power to penetrate the social landscape. using both old and new technology, by owning each others shares, engaging in joint ventures as partners, and other forms of cooperation, this handful of giants has created what is, in effect, a new communications cartel within the United States. At issue is not just a financial statistic, like production numbers or ordinary industrial products like refrigerators or clothing. At issue is the possession of power to surround most every man, woman, and child in the country with controlled images and words, to socialize each new generation of Americans, to alter the political agenda of the country. And with that power comes the ability to exert influence that in many ways is greater than that of schools, religion, parents, and even government itself." - preface from The New Communications Cartel by Ben H Bagdikian 1997
At its most basic it is about creating a 'dependency minded' based populace. The leaders in political and corporate realms thrive on a dumbed down population that will believe false constructs of left - right, good - bad, what will make one feel fulfilled or 'successful' etc... So you could say there is a concerted effort to keep people mentally 'childlike'. How else can you have constant 'Wars' that accomplish nothing but to make resource speculators and a select few extremely wealthy while the majority of people's conditions worsen?
The legal profession / industry seeks to create more 'victims' as part of market demand creation. Medical industry focuses on diseases rather than building health; Clinical Psychology focuses on pathologies instead of concentrating on the 'sanities' such as courage and optimism; News Media focuses on negativity rather than good news because "good news" doesn't sell; Insurance focuses on selling fear and negativity; Advertising & Marketing is dedicated to making you think you have all kinds of problems only their products can fix.
That is the workings of the system, to twist reality in such a way to make people believe they have a choice and freedom, when in fact they have none. The best way to control a people is to make them believe they are free and have free choice, while controlling their choices, behavior, desires, opinions and options through conditioning of official culture and the control of education, media, religion, economy and the banking system.
I'll leave you with one last quote to ponder:
"When watching men of power in action it must be always kept in mind that, whether they know it or not, their main purpose is the elimination or neutralization of the independent individual - the independent voter, consumer, worker, owner, thinker - and that every device aims at turning men into a manipulable "animated instrument" which is Aristotle's definition of a slave." - Eric Hoffer
So, your question is much deeper with more facets than you may think...
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I've often heard the stat "the brain does not fully develop until 25" bandied around like it's some sort of hard fact, but I'm skeptical of it. I think this is another wives' tale like the "only use 10 percent of your brain" thing. The brain is always developing and changing until you die, you can't pick some random cutoff. It's also culturally relative, in China you're considered an adult at 13 for example. It's only in the US and maybe to a lesser extent other Western countries where you have the "kidult" phenomenon of 25, 27, 32 year olds still living with their mommies and even then this is more of a middle class luxury.
I'll be 25 in a couple months and I feel fully adult and have for a few years now. I'm not some immature brat who parties every single night and has no ambition or goals. I think mentally I'm much more like a 35 year old than a 14 year old and I sort of find the idea that people who are 24, their mid-20s, are adolescents sort of offensive. I also think the idea that 25 year olds have "maxed out" their potential to grow is possibly even more offensive.
Does anyone really believe that a 27 year old is more like a 70 year old than like a 22 year old psychologically? Because if the "brain stops developing at 25" myth is true that would indeed be the case.
It's complicated really. Of course a 27 year old is not like a 70 year old, more like people in their own age. I think adulthood starts at 20 but we are always changing. People in their 20s re in their 20s, regardless of what you do. I find it offensive too. Similar to how people sometimes no longer consider people over 23 in their 20s as if your 20s are only about being in frat houses. Or people 30 and over, really why are 30 years old born in 1984 being lumped as older people say 60 born in 1954? That some how if you over 25 that means automatically old! Really stupid. People 20-24 are adults not kids.
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I guess it's not a cut and dry thing. I think 21 should be the modern era "true adult" measure as most are living somewhat on their own with college.
I think the gun in their hand is much more dangerous than the beer would be.
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