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AmFest wonders:
"An obvious solution is allowing more young immigrants, but I was wondering if there is another real solution apart from this."
I was born before WWII. Based on my life experience, the biggest thing holding our birth rate down is governmental regulations that limit business and prosperity. Government has crushed economic opportunity in our nation and I hope we can overcome it peacefully, for if we do not we are in for a very messy revolution. I have been in the middle of messy revolutions and they are no fun for any good people.
"More young immigrants" can mean many things. Our nation will not give an engineer from Finland who is an expert at manufacturing paper a green card to work here temporarily, but they will let literally millions of illiterate Central Americans and various Yemenis, Iranians, Qataris and Lebanese waltz across both our borders unimpeded.
We have a "shovel ready job", folks. It is the border fence. A nation without borders is not a nation. I remember when we had a real border patrol. Bill Jordan may be the most famous Border Patrol Agent ever. There is a holster named for him. He was a kind man, but a no nonsense guy when it came to alien criminals. They could surrender peacefully or die. Simple as that.
Note the handcuffs at the top. People didn't wiggle out of them. Today we find documents along our border printed in Farsi. That is the language of Persia, otherwise known as Iran. Their intelligence service is called Qud. They are here.
To address AmFest's solution above, it will take a generation to get our birth rate back up. We need government to get out of the way so young people will have the confidence to have families. Government is not our friend and has not been since at least 2008.
During the resumption of large families in our nation we need to keep our borders closed in order to provide economic opportunity for their parents. Sure, let the Finn engineer in. He can carry his own weight. Let others in who can carry their own weight. People will write books about these last six years. Some have already.
You Not the way it is currently being done. Accepting 'illegal' immigration is a bane and first plank in destroying a country. Simply look at other countries laws regarding "illegal" immigration versus "legal", and you will scratch your head in wonder at our current USA leaders idiocy.
That's not to say "Legal" immigration cannot be a partial strategy to contribute to the country's continued well being. But it should not be to fend off population distribution inversion, nor a power reason. One party (D) likes to play social 'do-gooder', when in fact they strive to lock in power control via government dependent voting bloc(s) and the other party (R), caters to corporate desires to have lots of excess labor to depress wages. Couple the latter with technological efficiency in most industries and there is not much effort at elevating humanity, but rather, what seems a concerted effort to farm humanity by those in control of the apparatus of the system.
Demography is destiny. I would suggest you look this term up and read the variables that contribute to a future destiny.
If you want to address birthrate in developed countries you first have to recognize the inherent disconnect between the predominant cultural values spewed forth by the mass media in a consumption driven economy and systems that lead to congruity in values. Immigration of non acculturating groups is a recipe for destruction.
I think what France has done, while costly, is on the right path. Ideally, you'd want to encourage and incent the active 'parenters' who are not unduly influenced by the consumption based economic ways of measuring success to have more children. To paraphrase a meme made famous by Rush Limbaugh mocking Jocelyn Elders, "every child a planned and wanted child" - what we need is a mentality of "Every child a parented, loved, cherished, disciplined and cared for child by their primary guardian(s)". Any "Culture" that doesn't, should be vehemently discouraged to overturn the growing negatively leveraged societal model.
When families look at cost benefit to lifestyle, there is a natural 'management of the reproduction rate' by the intelligent in the absence of religious or procreative desires for progeny. Couple this with purposeful policy by certain leaders to reinforce their voting base by giving benefits or rewarding negative social behaviors and you have what is known as a 'Negatively leveraged" societal formula. The more the activity occurs the worse things will get.
At the macro level the majority of people are being 'farmed'. Ideally, the 'leaders' (govt/corp) would like to take from you during your productive years, would like to drain whatever assets you may have accumulated in your senior years and when you are not 'productive' [re: totally farmed] you will then [buy the farm]. This may look like the "Carousal" treatment in, Logan's Run or the Edward G Robinson, Soylent Green treatment, i.e. select your favorite imagery and soundtrack as you are terminated while strapped to a gurney. It's not something I condone but it is the eventual progression in an amoral business economic financial system of consumption which dominates our so called 'developed' world. They also enjoy a festering underclass since it is then used to scare the **** out of the productive and keep them preoccupied with concern to mask the outright fraud and theft by the leaders syphoning off the majority of wealth.
The true paradigm shift is needed in the absence of exploring new worlds and colonizing and moving forth from our planet. This is not to say we need rigid population control as much as it is to say, we need a populace in tune with not what they can take from the earth but rather, how they can live in harmony with it. I suggest reading R. Buckminster Fuller; Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth, and Critical Path, to get an idea to what I'm referring.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 02-12-2015 at 05:48 AM..
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I have pointed out that immigrants help reduce the aging of the population. The majority of immigrants, even illegal immigrants - especially illegal immigrants, are young and add to the workforce. Legalizing illegal immigrants actually serves to educate and improve them, making them more productive to society and help resolve the issues caused by declining birth rate. If you have a different solution, go ahead and propose it and explain why it will work. This is the exact purpose of this thread.
Who really gives a crap about "educating" and "improving them" at the cost of our taxpayers. I certainly don't, with my tax dollars. Illegal Aliens are not an "asset" as you want us to believe. They are a burden on Society. If you want cheap labor, move to China. This country can adapt to changes in birthrates. It did so many years before we had Illegal Criminals sneaking across our borders. In fact we have too many people here, fighting for living space, and places to build, to the point they are destroying Natures balances, and creating shortages that we should never have. I am not even going to address the fact that these illegals send a great portion of what they make here, back to their home Countries, so how does that help us?
I don't have a "issue" that needs to be fixed, or corrected by allowing aliens to sneak across the borders. The issues I have is the fact that there are folks like you, who think its a Godsend. About two years ago, a bunch of them wrecked my Truck, parked in a parking lot, totaled it, and ran. Witnesses saw them, all speaking Spanish, when they did it, and ran from the scene. I know of at least 2 or 3 others who have been in accidents, with illegals that had no drivers licenses and no insurance. The "solution" you should be working on is how to get them out of our Country and how to Keep them out.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 02-12-2015 at 05:49 AM..
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You wrote an entire lengthy post and still failed to address the issue I raised in the original post: aging population. As I mentioned before, without supplying the population with younger people, eventually the population will be mostly older people who are going to need support and care from the young. What do you suppose is the solution if birth rate stays low and immigration isn't an option?
Its not affecting you, nor can you say that its going to be an issue. The Nation has existed long before you where here, and will probably last long after your gone, (if we don't destroy it first.) People adapt to their environment, and what they have to work with. If the upper 1% of the population can own 50% of the Nations Wealth, they may have to own less of it, we won't be spending Billions in other Countries. People adapt, and you don't know what the future is going to be. If you did, we would be watching you on TV.
I think thinning out the population would be more productive and better for the Nation, not populating it more, to gobble up what resources we have left.
Its not affecting you, nor can you say that its going to be an issue. The Nation has existed long before you where here, and will probably last long after your gone, (if we don't destroy it first.) People adapt to their environment, and what they have to work with. If the upper 1% of the population can own 50% of the Nations Wealth, they may have to own less of it, we won't be spending Billions in other Countries. People adapt, and you don't know what the future is going to be. If you did, we would be watching you on TV.
I think thinning out the population would be more productive and better for the Nation, not populating it more, to gobble up what resources we have left.
More importantly, its suburban middle class and wealthy Americans that need to decrease their birth rates (and their consumption) the most as their ecological footprint is simply much greater than everyone else's with their diets, large trucks, large homes, and ever expanding suburbs and exurbs built exclusively to cater to them. Which is assuming their children will consume just like them. Of course, these people don't like having any fingers pointed at them don't expect a pleasant or rational response.
Our population has more than doubled since the 70's! Over 7 BILLION PEOPLE, and still exploding!! The ramifications of this out of control breeding is evident in every area of our society, from wars, to pollution to no jobs for all of these people.
SPAY AND NEUTAR YOUR HUMAN! Enuff already . . . "One n done" if you have to breed!
Last edited by Oldhag1; 02-12-2015 at 05:49 AM..
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I find this line interesting "Back in the 60s, liberals were all about ZPG (zero population growth) to the point that many decided to not have kids so they wouldn't contribute to overpopulation. Now, liberals are pushing to add more and more people. Talk about doing a 180!"
I too have wondered about the ZPG (zero population growth) movement. I recall in the 90's mentioning it to a conservative co-worker and he thought it was a group that was against minorities reproducing interestingly enough.
I did look up that movement a year or two back and it still calls for 0 growth. As far as if they are liberals-I don't know. Also many liberals I know own dogs instead of kids now so they seem to have taken to it.
However as this relates to the main topic I have to say I don't feel having the current majority American population staying the same only sounds good to me. Yes we have finite water resources and especially in Texas we are taxed with so many moving here.
I would be happy to see zero population growth in the US. Then we can focus on improvement, conservation, community etc.
Pretty much import workers, which is why so many Americans don't make sense when they complain about the blessing in disguise called "illegal immigration from mexico"
they provide the US economy with plenty of cheap labor that helps the economy massively.
attracting immigrants is going to be increasingly difficult because most countries are aging and developing, soon most countries are going to be competing for work force!
"Pretty much import workers, which is why so many Americans don't make sense when they complain about the blessing in disguise called "illegal immigration from mexico"" Uncontrolled immigration and Carte Blanche Amnesty is not the answer for us.
"attracting immigrants is going to be increasingly difficult because most "
Not for the US. Last Poll I saw indicated that 1/3 of the world population would immigrate to the US if possible.
There's an increase in the amount of Americans becoming cheap labor as they are forced to compete with former illegal immigrants and now considered permanent residents but still charging less and have legal work permits.
Growth is not "rampant" in the third world. The global birth rate is just under 2.5.
third world birth are dropping but it's still high, moreover there are so many young people over there that even a birth rate of 1.5 would make their country grow bigger, just look at the population pyramid
once for all
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