Feminism an historic failure? (conspiracy, deaths, rating, leader)
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Obviously there are powerful female CEOs and ruthless leaders, but for the other 99% of women has feminism been a hindrance to happiness?
I'm seeing a number of single-childless-career-minded baby boomer women really terrified in the face of their waning years. They may have one elderly parent left, they may have a niece or nephew that pays attention to them every couple of years and that is about it. The corporation they were dedicated to no longer wants them, they have no family and men ignore them ... so they are kind of stuck in a very lonely purgatory. Meanwhile their peers are celebrating their grandchildren.
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Yeah, there are other reasons it is not an unqualified success as well. Woman are burdened with the idea that every difference between men and women has to be some sort of patriarchal conspiracy.
They have to be constantly confronted with the fact that men make more money for doing the same job as if it were something unnatural when the truth is that men OVERWHELMINGLY work more overtime, thus getting better results and raises. The almost certainly natural gap between men and women in terms of math and science has to be presented as some kind of function of male domination.
But there is not doubt that it has helped women who want access to a career. Everything has its yin and yang.
Oh, yeah, women were sooooo much better off when they were
... forced by law and/or custom to be dependent on their husbands, fathers or brothers
... denied education
... considered their husbands' property
... not allowed to keep their children in the case of divorce
... not considered capable to be their children's guardians in case of their husbands' deaths
... not allowed to own property in their own names
... expected to marry young and stay barefoot and pregnant
... not allowed to vote or hold political office
... pushed into low paying secretarial and industrial jobs
... barred/discouraged from entering certain professions or applying for certain jobs
... paid significantly less than their male counterparts for doing the same work
... held responsible for being raped
... subject to sexual harassment in the workplace
... expected to ignore their husbands' infidelities
... expected to take beatings from their husbands or boyfriends
... expected to allow their husbands or boyfriends to beat their children ...
I could go on, but I think you gentlemen get the hint that I do not think feminism was any kind of "failure".
Obviously there are powerful female CEOs and ruthless leaders, but for the other 99% of women has feminism been a hindrance to happiness?
I'm seeing a number of single-childless-career-minded baby boomer women really terrified in the face of their waning years. They may have one elderly parent left, they may have a niece or nephew that pays attention to them every couple of years and that is about it. The corporation they were dedicated to no longer wants them, they have no family and men ignore them ... so they are kind of stuck in a very lonely purgatory. Meanwhile their peers are celebrating their grandchildren.
lot of assumptions in this post.
feminism has brought women a choice in life, they can go after any job they may want. they now can have a life with or without a husband and children. men always had choice in his life, now women do to and it is a great thing.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 03-15-2015 at 11:57 PM..
Reason: Removed icon
Oh, yeah, women were sooooo much better off when they were
...
I could go on, but I think you gentlemen get the hint that I do not think feminism was any kind of "failure".
Straw man. I think that it is probable that the OP is referring to Second Wave feminism. It is quite a leap from 'women are fully human' to 'woman do not, and should not, need a man and/or children to be fulfilled'.
I think that most of us can get on board with the goals of feminists of the late 19th and early 20th century. But with those of the Postmodern era, it s quite another matter.
Obviously there are powerful female CEOs and ruthless leaders, but for the other 99% of women has feminism been a hindrance to happiness?
I'm seeing a number of single-childless-career-minded baby boomer women really terrified in the face of their waning years. They may have one elderly parent left, they may have a niece or nephew that pays attention to them every couple of years and that is about it. The corporation they were dedicated to no longer wants them, they have no family and men ignore them ... so they are kind of stuck in a very lonely purgatory. Meanwhile their peers are celebrating their grandchildren.
Because 99% of women can't be happy unless they squirt out a few kids?
Got news for you... Having a family doesn't guarantee happiness or that anyone will be celebrating grandchildren.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 03-16-2015 at 12:00 AM..
Reason: Removed icons
Oh, yeah, women were sooooo much better off when they were
... forced by law and/or custom to be dependent on their husbands, fathers or brothers
... denied education
... considered their husbands' property
... not allowed to keep their children in the case of divorce
... not considered capable to be their children's guardians in case of their husbands' deaths
... not allowed to own property in their own names
... expected to marry young and stay barefoot and pregnant
... not allowed to vote or hold political office
... pushed into low paying secretarial and industrial jobs
... barred/discouraged from entering certain professions or applying for certain jobs
... paid significantly less than their male counterparts for doing the same work
... held responsible for being raped
... subject to sexual harassment in the workplace
... expected to ignore their husbands' infidelities
... expected to take beatings from their husbands or boyfriends
... expected to allow their husbands or boyfriends to beat their children ...
I could go on, but I think you gentlemen get the hint that I do not think feminism was any kind of "failure".
Well I'm a woman and I can GUARANTEE you that in the 70's the "you can have it all" was nonsense. And THAT'S the topic being discussed, I believe.
Somebody forgot to tell the women that the family burden would NEVER be shared 50-50.
The EASY part was replacing the wooden ladders for the lighterweight aluminum. How do you replace the biology or the mindset of the men. And the women, for that matter.
OH and there's that little detail called pregnancy, delivery, recovery and OH ...OOOPPPS. SOMEBODY has to bond with the baby.
No problem, though. Just shuffle them off to daycare and let perfect strangers do the "bonding" (LOL) for 12 hours per day.
We won't even discuss the "gotta have two cars and BIG ones" and the huge single homes with roman tubs etc. Thereby handcuffing BOTH spouses to full time jobs, aggressive career paths and even less time for "family".
So ridiculous. Women were not SLAVES before - IT TOOK TIME AND EFFORT to run a house. My grandmother had to go to the farm, kill the chicken (or have it killed), pluck it yada yada. She couldn't whip out a Lean Cuisine or call takeout. Just drying the clothes and ironing was an all day affair.
Runwithscissors makes so much sense in her post. While I have to admit that women were not always treated well by men and society, I don't think that when women finally got the things they thought they wanted that they found a bed of roses waiting for them.
I have been in various relationships with some very strong, intelligent ladies over the years, and I love a woman who is not a doormat. However, I also do not want a feminist who wants to stand beside me at the urinals and who thinks the way to assert herself is by putting her sex in my face. (well, you know what I mean !) A lot of women thought the grass was so green where we men were, but sometimes they found out we men really didn't have it all that great in the final analysis.
I also don't get the view that some women have that any woman who stays home and raises a family is somehow not fulfilling herself, and she is lower on the totem pole than her Husband. Nothing could be further from the truth. I did 50% of the raising of my Sons, and IT IS NOT THE EASIEST JOB IN THE WORLD RUNNING A HOME !! But women have been successfully doing it for centuries and making it look easy. My hat is off to Moms who are able to do this.
As for the poster who listed some very nasty things men did to women.........I never did, and most men did not do those things. We loved our Wives, and we did everything we could to protect them and give them the best life we could. Instead of saying that we forced our Wives to stay at home, how about saying we worked hard so they could be there to give our Children a great upbringing ?
Don
Last edited by Oldhag1; 03-16-2015 at 12:02 AM..
Reason: Removed icon
Oh, yeah, women were sooooo much better off when they were
... forced by law and/or custom to be dependent on their husbands, fathers or brothers
... denied education
... considered their husbands' property
... not allowed to keep their children in the case of divorce
... not considered capable to be their children's guardians in case of their husbands' deaths
... not allowed to own property in their own names
... expected to marry young and stay barefoot and pregnant
... not allowed to vote or hold political office
... pushed into low paying secretarial and industrial jobs
... barred/discouraged from entering certain professions or applying for certain jobs
... paid significantly less than their male counterparts for doing the same work
... held responsible for being raped
... subject to sexual harassment in the workplace
... expected to ignore their husbands' infidelities
... expected to take beatings from their husbands or boyfriends
... expected to allow their husbands or boyfriends to beat their children ...
I could go on, but I think you gentlemen get the hint that I do not think feminism was any kind of "failure".
I don't understand some of your points. Men who are going to beat their GFs/wives aren't going to care one way or the other.
Also, not all women want to be like men, they want to let their husbands earn the money while they stay home and watch soap operas and "raise" the kids. Almost all the women i know don't work and stay home and raise kids and they like it that way, they don't want a "Career" in the workplace.
Well I'm a woman and I can GUARANTEE you that in the 70's the "you can have it all" was nonsense. And THAT'S the topic being discussed, I believe.
Somebody forgot to tell the women that the family burden would NEVER be shared 50-50.
The EASY part was replacing the wooden ladders for the lighterweight aluminum. How do you replace the biology or the mindset of the men. And the women, for that matter.
OH and there's that little detail called pregnancy, delivery, recovery and OH ...OOOPPPS. SOMEBODY has to bond with the baby.
No problem, though. Just shuffle them off to daycare and let perfect strangers do the "bonding" (LOL) for 12 hours per day.
We won't even discuss the "gotta have two cars and BIG ones" and the huge single homes with roman tubs etc. Thereby handcuffing BOTH spouses to full time jobs, aggressive career paths and even less time for "family".
So ridiculous. Women were not SLAVES before - IT TOOK TIME AND EFFORT to run a house. My grandmother had to go to the farm, kill the chicken (or have it killed), pluck it yada yada. She couldn't whip out a Lean Cuisine or call takeout. Just drying the clothes and ironing was an all day affair.
The 1970s was 40+ years ago, and the OP said "feminism" not "feminism in the 1970s". Furthermore, that so many more fathers take active roles in caring for their children -- and enjoy doing it -- than they did before the 1970s proves that feminism was liberating for both women and men.
Who's stopping you from embracing the traditional role of wife and mother?
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