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I've been seeing this term get thrown around a lot with the whole Bill Cosby case going on, but it seems like either:
1. People don't know what this term means, or
2. People use it as a trump card to win a debate.
I think rape is terrible and that it should never happen to anyone, but I also think that some women (OR some men, since we can be raped too) put themselves in bad predicaments leading up to the actual crime. Somehow this makes me a victim blamer. Can someone please explain this? Why is it also wrong for me to think someone is lying about being raped?
Unfortunately, there is a LOT of "buyer's remorse" after the act...especially for those younger gals in college or high school....all they have to do is "allege" and they can destroy a young man's life. Does it happen (rape)??? Yes, all too often.
Should there be some "vetting" to make sure it's not a lover scorned? You bet and rarely happens.
Rape is a SERIOUS charge. One of the 7 deadly sins in most states and RIGHTFULLY so....let's just make sure it's legit each and every time and if so, prosecute to the maximum extent of the law.
I fell very, very sorry for any legitimate rape victim but, there is no doubt that a LOT of willing participants have regrets and when facing the shame (perhaps pregnancy) the nuclear option is to "allege" rape in some hopeless attempt to restore dignity.
^^^^THIS. Common sense and TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for one's part in the situation.
Of COURSE a person who forces another person to do something, be it sexual or otherwise, is at fault for THEIR actions.
The victim is at fault for THEIR part, and acting like a wild party animal/drunk is perhaps contributory to being ain that vulnerable position, so TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for being an irresponsible, foolish idiot who put themself in that place to begin with. Have self control, don't get so drunk you pass out. Don't tease guys, don't lead them on, and you're less likely to find yourself in a room alone with an aggressive, forceful man with no impulse control who will rape you. Why poke a beast with a stick? Be sensible. Acting sluttishly is going to send a different message than acting modestly, why send that message?
This is different to a case wherein a gal/guy was just walking on the street minding own business and is dragged into an alleyway.
Phetaroi- This isn't suggesting victims are to blame?
Last edited by Meyerland; 01-27-2016 at 12:34 PM..
There is an old story, about King David (or you can make it any wise ruler).
King held his court day.
Here comes a woman and says - King, man such and such raped me. Punish him.
King orders guards to bring man to his court.
Man is brought in and King asks him:
Do you know this woman?
Yes, I do.
Did you rape her?
No, we had intercourse but it was with her consent.
King turns to the woman and asks:
Will you confirm that this man indeed raped you?
Yes, insists woman.
King orders his servant to bring a needle and a thread. Then, King holds needle between his thumb and index fingers, eye up, hands thread to the woman and tells her to thread the needle.
Woman tries to do so, but every time thread gets close to the needle eye, King will turn it a little bit so she misses.
After several attempts, woman loses her patience and says Your Majesty, will you please hold that needle steady?
To what King says: Woman, unless you held yourself steady, that man could have not threaded you either.
Dismissed.
Just an old story.
Phetaroi- is this not blaming the victim, too?
I can keep going. These two were on the first few pages of this thread. There are lots more.
I would not rob someone because I am not a criminal. But I know that if I do not take precautions to protect myself, I am more likely to get robbed by a criminal. Because, be assured, criminals exist. And no way on this earth will I ever teach my children to NOT lock their doors because that's "victim blaming". That's ridiculous. I will teach them precautions to take to keep them safe. Sometimes precautions aren't enough, and people get robbed, or raped, anyway. But you make it a little less likely by taking precautions.
How does a woman invite a man to rape her? Well, as I understand it, most rape is date rape. Most rape is done by a guy who the girl knows, they go on a date, maybe have something to drink, and the girl goes upstairs with the guy either not thinking, or thinking it won't go very far, or thinking she wants it to go somewhere and then changes her mind. The guy either gets no signals, mixed signals, or gets overcome by the heat of the moment and ignores the signals. So, I think if you want to statistically lessen your chances of getting raped, then don't put yourself in this position, until you are far enough in the relationship that you are absolutely sure that you are wanting to have sex with this person.
I mean, it's pretty logical, right?
And NO WHERE did I ever say she deserved to get raped. YOU said that. No one deserves to get raped. But all girls and women everywhere deserve to receive an appropriate education on how to lessen their chances of getting raped, and how to protect themselves. And if you deny them that education for the sake of being politically correct, then YOU are causing harm.
No one deserves to get hit by a tornado. But gosh darn it you still teach everyone to get underground or away from windows, or get out of the car and into a ditch. You don't tell people "it's okay, just stand there, cause if the tornado kills you it's NOT YOUR FAULT". That's just patently stupid.
Or this, phetaroi. This is basically Basically saying- don't put yourself in a position to be raped. Like a regular guy is just going to pounce on a woman because of signals SHE is sending. Normal men don't rape. The rapists are abnormal and don't wear a sign identifying them. They may build up trust and manipulate the situation to their advantage.
This conversation is not and has not been "how can women protect themselves" it's "how women are partly to blame for being raped" HUGE difference.
I can keep going. These two were on the first few pages of this thread. There are lots more.
You could keep going, but you'd only look more foolish, because that isn't what you said. Nor what he challenged. You said that nothing gives someone the "right to rape". Those were your words. And he is correct in saying that NO ONE on this thread has, even remotely, suggested that anyone has a "right to rape" anyone. It's just a strawman.
Phetaroi- This isn't suggesting victims are to blame?
I don't feel that saying that:
"Of COURSE a person who forces another person to do something, be it sexual or otherwise, is at fault for THEIR actions. ...acting like a wild party animal/drunk is perhaps contributory to being in that vulnerable position, so TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for being an irresponsible, foolish idiot who put themself in that place to begin with. Have self control, don't get so drunk you pass out. Don't tease guys, don't lead them on, and you're less likely to find yourself in a room alone with an aggressive, forceful man with no impulse control who will rape you. Why poke a beast with a stick? Be sensible. Acting sluttishly is going to send a different message than acting modestly, why send that message? ..."
is blaming the victim for rape. It's blaming the victim for unwise behavior, and still blaming the rapist for the rape.
Or this, phetaroi. This is basically Basically saying- don't put yourself in a position to be raped. Like a regular guy is just going to pounce on a woman because of signals SHE is sending. Normal men don't rape. The rapists are abnormal and don't wear a sign identifying them. They may build up trust and manipulate the situation to their advantage.
This conversation is not and has not been "how can women protect themselves" it's "how women are partly to blame for being raped" HUGE difference.
No, in fact the poster says, "And NO WHERE did I ever say she deserved to get raped."
If a US citizen walks into North Korea and is abducted, where do opinions fall? It's a similar situation of "shouldn't have done that, you have your own actions to blame."
North Korea is obviously wrong in this scenario for abducting someone.
The citizen should have clearly known better given the high risk situation.
Are the people telling the citizen he shouldn't have gone to North Korea guilty of victim blaming as well, or are they just pointing out "common sense" that would have "prevented this"?
At the end of the day, both the NK government in my scenario and the rapist are responsible for the crime and they both have control over their actions, but does the US citizen's disregard put partial blame on him, or should his actions be irrelevant because the crime was committed by someone else?
I point this out because certain topics tend to become emotional and move away from the logic. Rape being a key example.
When you phrase the similar situations slightly differently, it's surprising what you have to consider.
That said: Mod Note: While statistics are fine and yes, men are currently more likely to commit rape, be aware that gender bashing is not permitted and if this turns into a "men are evil rapists" thread, it will be closed. So far that hasn't happened, and I hope it remains that way.
Actually, this is a great analogy. We had a similar situation when I was in the Army, where to US citizens thought it would be a great idea to go hiking in the mountains of Iraq. Then my unit was forced to look for them over there. All the while we were thinking "why tf would they go hiking in Iraq?" They ended up getting beheaded.
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