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My point is society often enables aspects of dysfunctionality by putting a more sympathetic spin on such behavior. Alcoholic? Not my fault. I have a "disease" Live on the streets? Not my fault. I'm "homeless" because ...(fill in the blank)
Many problems are the result of bad choices and a lack of personal responsibly. My alcoholism was caused by my drinking too much and the problems associated because of choices I made.
Now, I like making excuses as much as the next person. However, I wouldn't anyone to cut me slack because I have a "disease"
Genetics, weak-willed or just plain f-up? . I'll check them all off but a disease" no.
That's a cop out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by john3232
Not necessarily a pass but a more sympathetic explanation as to why one drinks to excess. It's more sympathetic to suggest one has a disease than it is to hold a person actions to a strict accountability.
Ok...but when the rubber meets the road, how does a sympathetic spin enable anyone (on a broad societal level.). If a drunk hits my car, knowing he was abused as a child isn't going to stop me from going after him to get my car fixed or my medical bills paid? No one cares.
Reasons are different than excuses, and I think you confuse the concepts. If I shoot a man for vandalizing my car,I have a reason, but not an excuse.
If I show up to work two hours late because I'm hungover, it's a reason, but not an excuse. And if I show up to work late because I'm hungover because I drink too much because I suffer from a mental illness, my boss isn't going to care. The trucks need loading and the hogs need feeding.
Addiction is not a disease,
it's a mental problem, and it's only a problem when it affects peoplne normal function in our society
Just like gambling,
that's why it is illegal in Texas
Disagree. Plenty of people who are taking pain meds legitimately end up with an addiction. A physical response to the lack of substance no longer in their system, and some won't.
Addiction is illegal in Texas?
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I never bought the disease classification, addictions are an emotional/mental disorder,cancer,ulcers,etc are a physical disorder, and a cold, chicken pox,etc is a disease, your body has been invaded by some type of virus/bacteria.
Ok...but when the rubber meets the road, how does a sympathetic spin enable anyone (on a broad societal level.).
When it affects my pocketbook (taxes) or disturbs my property. I'm all for helping those who have suffer from events out of their control. However, the guy/gal on the street is often there because of self-affected wounds. Not because of the economy, capitalism, a disease or any other sympathetic spin society often allows you to hide behind. Just look at San Francisco which has cuddled its homeless population for years. Nothing was ever solved and the problems are worse than ever.
Disagree. Plenty of people who are taking pain meds legitimately end up with an addiction. A physical response to the lack of substance no longer in their system, and some won't.
Addiction is illegal in Texas?
A Chemical dependency is different than an addiction. The two are often closely intertwined, but you can have one without the other (gambling is the easy example, marijuana another of addiction without chemical dependence.) Similarly, someone that takes Lexapro, a pretty common SSRI, shouldn't stop taking it cold turkey as the withdrawla symptoms are pretty gnarly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by john3232
When it affects my pocketbook (taxes) or disturbs my property.
I'm all for helping those who have suffer from events out of their control. However, the guy/gal on the street is often there because of self-affected wounds. Not because of the economy, capitalism, a disease or any other sympathetic spin society often allows you to hide behind. Just look at San Francisco which has cuddled its homeless population for years. Nothing was ever solved and the problems are worse than ever.
Okay, let's try this again. How do you define "enabling"?
I define it (in this context) as "encouraging someone's bad behavior or unhealthy habits, or making accommodations for harmful conduct." Again, its my pocketbook (taxes) that pays for the police to come out and remove someone that's urinating on my lawn flamingos or sleeping in the doorway of the mini-mart. I pay for that, but it isn't enabling them.
San Francisco, to your point, might enable its homeless population, I'm not sure as I haven't lived there or visited.
I've lived in conservative states and liberal states, and I can tell you that the system doesn't "enable" anyone in either case. The conservative state is more likely to incarcerate, and the liberal state is more likely to try and get them into treatment (with the threat of jail if they don't comply.) Neither qualify as enabling.
A Chemical dependency is different than an addiction. The two are often closely intertwined, but you can have one without the other (gambling is the easy example, marijuana another of addiction without chemical dependence.) Similarly, someone that takes Lexapro, a pretty common SSRI, shouldn't stop taking it cold turkey as the withdrawla symptoms are pretty gnarly.
Okay, let's try this again. How do you define "enabling"?
I define it (in this context) as "encouraging someone's bad behavior or unhealthy habits, or making accommodations for harmful conduct." Again, its my pocketbook (taxes) that pays for the police to come out and remove someone that's urinating on my lawn flamingos or sleeping in the doorway of the mini-mart. I pay for that, but it isn't enabling them.
San Francisco, to your point, might enable its homeless population, I'm not sure as I haven't lived there or visited.
I've lived in conservative states and liberal states, and I can tell you that the system doesn't "enable" anyone in either case. The conservative state is more likely to incarcerate, and the liberal state is more likely to try and get them into treatment (with the threat of jail if they don't comply.) Neither qualify as enabling.
I agree with your definition and SF is a perfect example of what I am talking about. Local governments cuddling and/or excusing the behavior of individuals effect property values and leads to increases in taxes. Passed out in a doorway? The city sends out a paramedic unit, the individual gets treated and perhaps a couple of days rest and back he goes. This all is very costly to the city and ultimately the tax payer.
And why does SF have such a homeless problem considering its size? Because local social services basically enable such individuals and they flock in from all around the country. This in turn causes the City to divert money to the issue of homelessness. Money which could be better spend elsewhere.
I haven't read all the responses and will not but will say this.
I a lot of the people I work with are in recovery.
Weekly, or at least three times a month one of them will post on facebook about a fellow addict in recovery with them has overdosed and died on heroin.
I asked one of my coworkers if the rash of people OD'ing and dying of heroin doesn't scare him straight?
He said, "This is what you don't get about being an addict. When I see the news and see someone has overdosed on heroin, I want to know who their dealer is and want some of the same $hit because I know it is strong".
All I hear about opiates abuse and alcohol abuse is that people are dying of these terrible diseases. Cancer is a disease. MS is a disease. Even the common cold is a disease. How is drinking or eating pills all day to mess with your conscienceless a disease? You did it. How come smoking isn't a disease?
The word 'disease' has a definition. The results of opiate or alcohol abuse are every much a disease as are the results of smoking, such as lung cancer. Lung cancer is a disease, whether it was caused by an individual's acts of smoking or by factors beyond the individuals control. Do you have a problem with lung cancer being called a disease? If so, do you only object when it's due to the affirmative act of smoking, as opposed to air pollution or genetics, which are also causes of lung cancer? Do you complain over the concept of heart disease when it's caused by over-consumption of fatty foods?
I would guess that you dislike that the word 'disease' implies victimhood, and that you're upset that some people who have to one degree or another brought medical misfortune upon themselves are benefiting from this implied victimhood. But the word 'disease' implies no such thing. It is a neutral medical term, and your misunderstanding of it is no cause for refraining from using it in circumstances that are correct.
Not calling the results of someone's abuse of prescription drugs a disease despite the fact that it meets the clinical definition of a disease because this offends you? That's the very definition of political correctness.
It is if it has affects other people... families have been ruined by a drinking parent where money is scarce and kids see fighting in the home... when others are suffering through drink drugs or gambling etc...it is immoral..
This, I think, is where the disease concept comes in handy. People who are ignorant about addiction may think they are hopeless and that there is no help, but once they understand that they have a terminal, treatable illness it is at that point that they do have a responsibility to treat it.
You know, people under the influence usually have no idea how much they affect other people, nonetheless the legal system will hold them responsible. So their excuses hold no water.
I personally don't know any recovering people who still blame their illness for their behavior. People who just quit, maybe. But people who have been treated and are in recovery learn to take full responsibility for themselves and their sobriety or they don't stay sober.
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