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I know well-respected engineers who read and commented on the draft NIST report before it was published. Some of them were intimately familiar with the WTC and worked there, including the Chief Engineer at the time of The Port Authority, the owner of the WTC, who lost staff and friends.
It baffles me that people actually think that saboteurs could have accessed a building where the office workers couldn't get a pizza delivered to their floor due to post-2/26/93 security. I was once inside the security control room for a bid walkthrough related to some stand-alone A/C units. The bank of camera screens was impressive. You couldn't scratch your ass in front of an elevator without someone seeing you.
I feel bad you experienced the destruction and lost friends and co workers.
Did anyone ever investigate the now defunct ACE Elevator Co which had spent 10 months working on the WTC elevator retrofit and had time and access to the service core of the building?
And why they did not follow protocol in such an emergency in a high rise building? (which the Otis Elevator employees did in 1993 bombing)
Did anyone you know ever engage the Ace Elevator co 'work crew'?
Ask some of the people you know let us know the reaction you get.
As for OPs Q:
It is not unbelievable that a few in our government played a part in covering up a massive theft of over $2.3 trillion using an old covert plan such as Operation Northwoods as the template.
It IS unbelievable that a commercial Boeing 757 (piloted by a poorly trained Saudi with no flight experience on a 757 no less) would guide it toward the pentagon (in a 'perfect strike') and make a hole SMALLER that its fuselage diameter, and strategically destroy the section of the pentagon where the financial records were kept with the precision of a military strike.
Not sure what there is to debate though, since so much evidence that is not supportive of the event as promoted is condemned to burial in the memory hole.
You're not the first to fall for the conspiracy stuff and probably won't be the last. For people who aren't familiar with the event or the WTC or have only seen bad information on the Internet, it sounds exciting and as if you've got some inside info, right?
First of all, I am dismissing your bolded statement above. When that 9/11 A&E Truth organization or whatever it was first came out and they had about 700 people, I ran through the list. Very few of them were actually either architects or engineers, and the only one who had any connection whatsoever to the World Trade Center was a retired electrician who had worked on the original construction in the 1960s.
There are tens of thousands of Civil Engineers alone in the United States, many more in the world. Most of them do not believe that the collapse of the WTC happened in any way other than the way it was concluded by the group of experts who examined the debris and did the analysis of the collapse.
Now, you may, because you looked at the YouTube sites, be under the impression that the federal government swooped down on lower Manhattan, cordoned it off, took all the debris away by its own big self, and then produced the NIST report in secret. That seems to be what they are trying to sell. I know well-respected engineers who read and commented on the draft NIST report before it was published. Some of them were intimately familiar with the WTC and worked there, including the Chief Engineer at the time of The Port Authority, the owner of the WTC, who lost staff and friends.
There were 40,000 people who worked on the cleanup on the pile and the sorting at the facility set up at Fresh Kills on Staten Island where the debris was taken first by truck, then by barge. There were contractors, engineers, volunteers, and yes, some FEMA people, by far in the minority in that 40,000. They were not in control of these operations.
As for Larry, his "pull it" thing means nothing. That's not a demolition term, no matter how much the CT people want to say so. Further, he had no authority to decide what to do. The decision to abandon saving the building was made by the firefighters and the Port Authority's World Trade Center engineers. Larry Silverstein's 99-year net lease required him to rebuild the property in the event that the buildings were destroyed--not an unusual clause in a net lease on buildings that had been a terrorist target since the 1980s and hit once already. It's puzzling that people think he made money on the loss of the buildings. In the subsequent years, if you following the Master Agreement and its changes, he had to hand over a chunk of the money when the PA took back One WTC. He still cannot afford to build Tower 2 in the new complex because he can't get financing for it unless he proves he can fill it. (Four is occupied and Three is just about completed.)
It baffles me that people actually think that saboteurs could have accessed a building where the office workers couldn't get a pizza delivered to their floor due to post-2/26/93 security. I was once inside the security control room for a bid walkthrough related to some stand-alone A/C units. The bank of camera screens was impressive. You couldn't scratch your ass in front of an elevator without someone seeing you.
I have no idea what the US government knew or didn't know before the event. As a survivor, I know what it felt like when AA11 slammed into us, that the building was leaning as I ran down the stairs, that the steel sounded wrong and that if you don't know what I mean by that you don't know much about the WTC, and what I saw/felt/heard that day, and it doesn't match up to what the CT sites want you to believe. I went back to work on the rebuilding, and I can tell you that the engineers who were also in the building that day and who worked on the analysis and the rebuilding and out at Fresh Kills know that it was not a controlled demolition.
Thanks for your detailed thoughts on that.
I think we’re in a scenario of confirmation bias here. There is a difference between bad information, no information, and misinformation - As mere mortals, all views that can be taken of 9/11 are subject to all 3 of those.
Nevertheless, it does seem we’re in an age where there is an abundance in the availability of alternative views and information that does not support a so called, and often meandering official narrative. That can only be a good thing - to move away from what is patently an hierarchically controlled society at least at the political level - and that is ultimately what is on trial here - the percentage of people who are taking what is said by politicians and media as de facto is becoming less and less. Whether people are being lied to is by the by - if credibility begins to be questioned, then it’s the beginning of the end of the system. If not wholly replaced, it will at least change, by degrees, to something more palatable.
And the issue then would be the psychological utility or indeed benefits of increasing the level of truth in the inner parts. In deepening the search for truth, there’s no telling where one could end up.
So, on another note, I’ve only just noticed your subtitle name, ‘luciferian filth’ - what's that all about? ...just imagine I haven’t formed a prior belief about you
I think we’re in a scenario of confirmation bias here. There is a difference between bad information, no information, and misinformation - As mere mortals, all views that can be taken of 9/11 are subject to all 3 of those.
Nevertheless, it does seem we’re in an age where there is an abundance in the availability of alternative views and information that does not support a so called, and often meandering official narrative. That can only be a good thing - to move away from what is patently an hierarchically controlled society at least at the political level - and that is ultimately what is on trial here - the percentage of people who are taking what is said by politicians and media as de facto is becoming less and less. Whether people are being lied to is by the by - if credibility begins to be questioned, then it’s the beginning of the end of the system. If not wholly replaced, it will at least change, by degrees, to something more palatable.
And the issue then would be the psychological utility or indeed benefits of increasing the level of truth in the inner parts. In deepening the search for truth, there’s no telling where one could end up.
So, on another note, I’ve only just noticed your subtitle name, ‘luciferian filth’ - what's that all about? ...just imagine I haven’t formed a prior belief about you
Ha, I will answer your posts better when I have a keyboard and not just a phone (I am at an engineering industry event in NYC, which is not exactly riveting at the moment, hence the phone distraction Not an engineer myself, though I have spent 40 years in the industry).
But, I have seen you post in the R&S forum. I was called "Luciferian filth" by one of the regular fundamentalist Christian posters there because of my liberal Christian path, so I took the status as a backhanded compliment and to remind others what type of person he and some of his comrades really are.
I don't think it's too unbelievable, it's just the conspiracy theories that a lot of people talk about I find to be far fetched, and have holes in, like they are reaching.
So I believe the government believable could have played a part when it comes to the 'why', but do not believe the theories I have heard when it comes to the 'how'.
Ha, I will answer your posts better when I have a keyboard and not just a phone (I am at an engineering industry event in NYC, which is not exactly riveting at the moment, hence the phone distraction Not an engineer myself, though I have spent 40 years in the industry).
But, I have seen you post in the R&S forum. I was called "Luciferian filth" by one of the regular fundamentalist Christian posters there because of my liberal Christian path, so I took the status as a backhanded compliment and to remind others what type of person he and some of his comrades really are.
Yes, come back anytime, whatever level of detail you wish. (I'm an engineer - mechanical - 20 odd years in various industries. On a career break at the moment - the heat at the interface between my views and others' ('politics' - for simplicity's sake) put an end to it, or that phase at least.)
I would have described myself as fundamentalist at one time. Now, not really.
Last edited by Age-enduring; 04-08-2018 at 04:38 AM..
Reason: Clarification of politics as a difference of opinion.
They were most certainly involved... IN A BIG WAY!!
Why do you think they quickly took the camera footage from around the pentagon??
IT SHOWED THIER STORY WAS BS!!!!!!!
Taking footage from all cameras around the Pentagon certainly would reduce the number of videos that required 'doctoring' afterwards.
If you were going to attempt to steer an official narrative by controlling all available evidence you would have a threshold of how far you would reasonably go to manipulate evidence that wasn't in your favour. So indeed there is a decent amount of video data/evidence, that only blurrs the line further. Indeed, my view is that pretty much all available online video has been tampered with, if it had shots of supposed plane impacts in it, so the greater apparent effort has been to manipulate the video available, but the audio associated with the video, less so. With respect to audio, the examples that come to mind are:
(1) audio evidence of a single large explosion approximately 9 seconds before the supposed first plane hits - this is the large "secondary" explosion (actually it is the 'primary') in the basement/subway, responsible for destroying the lobby.
(2) audio evidence (and testimony) of pre-collapse explosions in WTC7.
And in another, in some ways related event (wrt: controlled media narrative and utility of audio analysis) - the Vegas shootings - "lone gunman", as reported by the media. There is a good analysis done of audio captured in a car that indicates there was at least 2 shooters.
Last edited by Age-enduring; 04-08-2018 at 08:08 AM..
I'm not a engineer or anything but I have to ask about some things.
1. If jet fuel isn't hot enough to melt steel beams then why was there talk of molten steel on the ground?
2. How was the mass from 15 stories able to destroy 80 plus stories below? I get it has it falls it gains more mass but it was only falling from one floor above.
3. Last question. Being that no one wants to believe that OUR government would do such a thing,
do we tend to let our political biases get in the way of what might be?
I'm not a engineer or anything but I have to ask about some things.
1. If jet fuel isn't hot enough to melt steel beams then why was there talk of molten steel on the ground?
2. How was the mass from 15 stories able to destroy 80 plus stories below? I get it has it falls it gains more mass but it was only falling from one floor above.
3. Last question. Being that no one wants to believe that OUR government would do such a thing,
do we tend to let our political biases get in the way of what might be?
1. Because there must have been some mechanism at play that could melt steel. Most 'experts' ascertain it was "nanothermite", which appeared to be present in 3 different dust samples, analysed by 3 different organisations. They say nanothermite is more reactive than ordinary thermite - you don't need as much of it.
2. It's not possible. With respect to conservation of momentum. David Chandler covers this well in many available sources. I saw him in The Demolition of truth.
3. Politicians and diapers must be changed often..., and for the same reason. Mark Twain. ...perhaps if we are less "full of it", there's the potential for more credibility / possibilities.
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Not an engineer myself, though I have spent 40 years in the industry).
