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The reasons people advanced fast and reached positions of authority at a young age was pretty simple - attrition. Young officers used to toast to "bloody wars and sickly seasons", because that was how you advanced in rank. The bulk of the fighting men and women right now are of the millennial generation - and if the US fought countries that were equipped to fight back, you'd see young officers, too. Not that it's anything to wish for.
But speaking of independence - the millennials who honor me with their acquaintance are mostly a bunch of pretty damn tough men and women who sail and maintain sailing ships. That means cramped quarters, low pay, ridiculous hours, hard physical work and no job security. They live out of a sea bag for months and years on end as they move from ship to ship. They'll furl a sail 75 feet over the water, throw a dockline, steer a ship, fix a diesel, pump blackwater, take apart and rebuild a toilet (marine toilets are a nightmare) and stand watch from 2-6 AM without complaint. They're trained in first aid and fire fighting. They score pretty damn high on hardiness and self-reliance in my book.
They're also total geeks, helpful to a fault, trend towards camping and hiking, a whole lot of them are vegetarian or even vegan, the young women trend towards being fiercely feminist and they all tend to be environmentally conscious almost to a fault. (I like them, can you tell?) Oh, and off duty they drink like fish.
So - if the millennials I've encountered are anything to go by, there's not much to worry about.
No offense, but that's not that much better, as a practical measure, than playing CoD.
This sounds just like most of the boomers that I knew when we were young. We camped, hiked, grew organic vegetables, started the recycling movement, many were vegetarians, we protested against the stupid Viet Nam War, started the feminist movement, and held high ideals.
Some boomers hated us and I think those are the same ones who cared only about money and corporate America. That type seems to have taken over. The rest of us are still committed to our ideals and are compassionate and helpful to others. So please do not lump all boomers in the same bag. Many of us were just like you. You are only seeing the fat corporate rich braggart boomers who only care about themselves. We never liked them either!
I'm going to tack on a big fat YES to the question of this post! If today's society ever found themselves suddenly with no electricity at all, anywhere, ever, they wouldn't have the foggiest ideas how to start picking up the pieces because they have no sense of self-reliance or resources. People worked very hard before the advent of electricity and mechanisms. Therefore, to suddenly start having to learn to hunt and gather food, make clothes, and actually farm and protect what's yours, would not be an over-night lesson. Many would die.
However, I don't think this is unique to America (which I assume includes Canada and Alaska). Same goes for many other developed countries in the world.
No time right now, coschristi, to discuss but I actually did mean scrambled DNA. A better word would have been damaged.
I'm confused about your post.
DNA damage can be endogenous, caused by errors in metabolism, or exogenous, caused by environmental factors. And some genetic error can be inheritable. I do understand what you are saying about the multifactorial influence. Just wanted to specify that I was talking about inherited genetic disorders.
Or are you refuting the viral theory? And does it matter in context of this thread?
My point was that babies that used to be stillborn because of some malfunction in the normal ability to thrive are now being rescued by modern medicine and are able to pass on genetically influenced disorders.
Are we on the same page?
Ugh. Yes, we are mostly on the same page; I'm sorry that was so fragmented. I am transitioning from the school year to 3 teenagers at home, including my 14-year-old who has Autism & it feels like I am being interrupted 5,000x's a day..
The other day (different thread) it took 10 times over 12 hours for me to type two paragraphs ... I'm actually afraid to look at it now!
I especially agree regarding the neonatal/infant mortality issue. Even without the genetic abnormalities; just the fact that the age of viability is between 20-24 weeks is not something ever done before. We are shifting the parameters of "the fittest" & that is bound to impact generations to come.
On my own; before this thread was started, I became intrigued by the recent research of immune response impact on neurodegenerative/developmental disorders via microglia/synaptic pruning disruption.
Initially, I read about the ASD/Schizophrenia/Alzheimers link but during my last search, I noticed references to Parkinson's, MS & Huntington's. Most of this is new research & some of it is very new research. Within the context of this thread, one or two such disorders wouldn't seem majorly relevant but the combined impact of them; would be detrimental to the "hardiness" of a population.
If the common denominator is an immune response & that immune response is confirmed to be viral; it would at least imply that there would be effective preventative & restorative treatments in the future. Unfortunately; I have already seen a researcher declare his findings as "controversial"; because he has not yet determined if the immune response occurs during pre vs postnatal development.
I'm going to tack on a big fat YES to the question of this post! If today's society ever found themselves suddenly with no electricity at all, anywhere, ever, they wouldn't have the foggiest ideas how to start picking up the pieces because they have no sense of self-reliance or resources. People worked very hard before the advent of electricity and mechanisms. Therefore, to suddenly start having to learn to hunt and gather food, make clothes, and actually farm and protect what's yours, would not be an over-night lesson. Many would die.
However, I don't think this is unique to America (which I assume includes Canada and Alaska). Same goes for many other developed countries in the world.
I've thought about this a lot, actually. I don't think I would personally be very viable.
I have microcytic anemia; dehydrate quickly & lack typical bodily responses to both heat & cold. I had to have 9 units of blood transfused last year; which would not have been available even 100 years ago, let alone pre-electricity.
Well, possibly but then they would have killed me because they were not aware of blood typing/Rh negatives.
On the other hand: I bounce. I actually am more functional under extreme stress but when everything is caught up & relaxing; I start to flounder. Additionally; my medical problems arose from a surgery that was incompatible with my body & was not done prior to electricity. So maybe; I would have been better off.
Maybe I've watched too many Little House on the Prairie. Were the Ingals really self-reliant? Why did they go to Olsen's Mercantile to buy things? Did the Olsens have a very hard life operating their store? Even back then people still had to depend on others for goods/services they could not provide for themselves. While Mrs. Ingals sewed the family's clothes, she still had to buy the cloth from someone else to make the clothes.
Nobody on here has ever lived through a Hurricane being without electricity for days or weeks? Never used a fireplace to heat your home?
Have you ever heard someone say "I'm bored" ? We have more mindless distractions then ever before and more of everything yet with all that stuff we can still get bored.
I think the majority have it too easy in America. We have an abundance of food, clean water, most have a warm safe place to live and overall security. Most of us don't need to think about these things on a daily basis and we have become complacent to the point of complaining.
Have we lost our self reliance? I would answer that by observing what happens next time the power goes out for a few days or cell phone service is lost for a few hours.
Not so ?
in the initial immigrant experience the first arrivals had significant freeloaders that refused to work
The colony was in survival circumstances
Hence the rule -those that do not work do not eat
Sometimes severe measures are needed for severe situations
Today
One in 3 Americans are obese
46% of Americans work
What was your question?
Are Americans less hardy and self-reliant now than they were in previous centuries?
I think this depends greatly on which class of Americans we're talking about, all of which have a place and importance in survival and carrying on.
Just like in days past and currently, the well to do, the elites, the 1%, the Lords, the Barons, those that are located at the top of the pyramid, dictate life because they have the education, power, influence and the means to build dynasties, pay for whatever food, services, goods and other necessities they may require. Thus they are hardy and self-reliant in their own right.
The lessers among them will be the ones to provide whatever food, services, goods and other necessities they may require. Thus, they too are hardy and self-reliant.
Truth be told, modern life in America has improved significantly for both classes, although not equally, more so for the lessers than in decades and centuries past.
We are all capable of being self-reliant and hardy to various degrees, depending on our mindset, health, resources, education, employment, finances and circumstances. Beyond that, whatever lack of hardiness or self-reliance there is today is more due to laziness (mental and physical) not capability.
We are people of various upbringings and experiences but are all born of Neanderthals, some of which eventually invented the wheel and some of which put the wheel on the wagon.
Maybe I've watched too many Little House on the Prairie. Were the Ingals really self-reliant? Why did they go to Olsen's Mercantile to buy things? Did the Olsens have a very hard life operating their store? Even back then people still had to depend on others for goods/services they could not provide for themselves. While Mrs. Ingals sewed the family's clothes, she still had to buy the cloth from someone else to make the clothes.
Nobody on here has ever lived through a Hurricane being without electricity for days or weeks? Never used a fireplace to heat your home?
Yes, stores sold clothes in the 1800's but they likely sold more fabric to sew. And even as far later into the Great Depression, many poor people used flower-sacks to make dresses. In the 50's my mother made a lot of my own clothes. But in the advent of no electricity, it would be a riot to watch people make clothes without electricity to run a sewing machine, or even without a pattern. I know of only one person who sews dresses for her granddaughter. Her own daughter doesn't sew. I don't either, so I'd be up a creek in this situation, too, although I own a lot of clothes.
Days or weeks is nothing. The OP doesn't give a time-line but I'm going by years. As for food and heat, a lot of multi-family dwellers don't stockpile food, nor are they likely to have a stack of wood, either. For disasters, hurricanes do provide warnings to enable people to prepare ~ that is good. Earthquakes do not. If there ever is an actual attack in North America that blows out electricity everywhere, that's where the serious damage would come in.
I'm going to tack on a big fat YES to the question of this post! If today's society ever found themselves suddenly with no electricity at all, anywhere, ever, they wouldn't have the foggiest ideas how to start picking up the pieces because they have no sense of self-reliance or resources. People worked very hard before the advent of electricity and mechanisms. Therefore, to suddenly start having to learn to hunt and gather food, make clothes, and actually farm and protect what's yours, would not be an over-night lesson. Many would die.
However, I don't think this is unique to America (which I assume includes Canada and Alaska). Same goes for many other developed countries in the world.
One of the principles of technological advancement is that you use existing technology to create the next generation of technology.
1st gen - built with bare hands / hand tools
2nd gen - built using 1st gen technology to measure, calculate, manufacture
3rd gen - built using 2nd gen technology to measure, calculate, manufacture
And so on and so forth. To have exponential advancement, development of the next wave depends on the existence of the previous wave. Yes, this does put us in a position where we are "counting on there not being a total collapse of infrastructure". But if each generation started from sticks and dirt, we'd never develop anything more than what's achievable in one person's lifetime.
What's gotten us so far is choosing to continue to work on projects spanning longer than an individual's life, something greater than ourselves, though we may never see the finished result.
-------------
That being said, this current generation's way of life is a litmus test to see who chooses to rise and be self sufficient. We have many creature comforts today, and it seems that an average day of doing the bare minimum yields hardly any physical activity. Look around and see someone who's achieved greater than the bare minimum voluntarily:
- Voluntarily woken up early every day to have a healthy body
- Voluntarily showed up to class every day for four years to get a post-secondary education
- Voluntarily kept good communication with his peers at work, shared ideas, and never left any unfinished work hanging in the balance
Self discipline can yield great things.
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