Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 08-16-2018, 12:20 PM
 
Location: San Jose
2,594 posts, read 1,241,822 times
Reputation: 2590

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melchisedec View Post
Many people died in the Soviet Union before the "iron curtain" came down.

They paid the price to being inferior to Russia in military might.

Hungary in 1956 comes to mind.
Contrast the 1956 Hungarian revolution to the 1989 Polish Revolution which was totally nonviolent and the Polish in contrast to the Hungarians got what they wanted. Oh and they didn't get butchered either.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-16-2018, 12:31 PM
 
7,473 posts, read 4,017,691 times
Reputation: 6462
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
Compare the historic fate of Prussian and Imperial Germany to its much less militaristic neighbors. Sweden, Netherlands, Denmark, Switzerland, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, etc. None of these countries were hyper militarized and none of these nations were bombed to ruins and had their populations die by the millions.
Sweden;
Sweden warns it is 'preparing for war' as fear of Russian invasion grows | Daily Mail Online
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-16-2018, 12:38 PM
 
643 posts, read 329,712 times
Reputation: 1329
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
Contrast the 1956 Hungarian revolution to the 1989 Polish Revolution which was totally nonviolent and the Polish in contrast to the Hungarians got what they wanted. Oh and they didn't get butchered either.
33 years later

The Hungarians didn't want to suffer another 33 years
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-16-2018, 12:38 PM
 
7,473 posts, read 4,017,691 times
Reputation: 6462
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
Compare the historic fate of Prussian and Imperial Germany to its much less militaristic neighbors. Sweden, Netherlands, Denmark, Switzerland, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, etc. None of these countries were hyper militarized and none of these nations were bombed to ruins and had their populations die by the millions.
Netherlands;

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/...n-history.html
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-16-2018, 12:41 PM
 
7,473 posts, read 4,017,691 times
Reputation: 6462
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
Compare the historic fate of Prussian and Imperial Germany to its much less militaristic neighbors. Sweden, Netherlands, Denmark, Switzerland, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, etc. None of these countries were hyper militarized and none of these nations were bombed to ruins and had their populations die by the millions.
Denmark;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milita...ory_of_Denmark
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-16-2018, 12:43 PM
 
257 posts, read 177,832 times
Reputation: 820
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknowftbll View Post
But all those instances you cited are failures above the military level. State department, even POTUS mistakes. They're not military failures. You sure you're on the right thread?

That does nothing to diminish my point. The US government chose those failed paths because they had a large military and a large military-industrial complex at their disposal. When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. And sure, if that hammer is being used to try to drive screws, it's not the hammer's fault, it's the user, but you don't look at the mess created by using the hammer and say "that hammer sure is an awesome tool!" But of course a hammer is an inanimate object, the military is comprised of sentient people. The upper brass that keeps allowing itself to be used in follies, often encourages being used in those follies to justify their budget, is complicit. And at some point the young man or woman who signs up, willingly yields his/her free will and personal judgement to the chain of command despite this dubious history is complicit. And the Pentagon, White House, etc. have able to get away with this stuff as much as they have because they stoke this mythologizing of the military and the use of military action, and so the public that buys into that is complicit as well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-16-2018, 12:43 PM
 
7,473 posts, read 4,017,691 times
Reputation: 6462
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
Compare the historic fate of Prussian and Imperial Germany to its much less militaristic neighbors. Sweden, Netherlands, Denmark, Switzerland, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, etc. None of these countries were hyper militarized and none of these nations were bombed to ruins and had their populations die by the millions.
Switzerland;
Military history of Switzerland | Military Wiki | FANDOM powered by Wikia
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-16-2018, 12:47 PM
 
7,473 posts, read 4,017,691 times
Reputation: 6462
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
Compare the historic fate of Prussian and Imperial Germany to its much less militaristic neighbors. Sweden, Netherlands, Denmark, Switzerland, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, etc. None of these countries were hyper militarized and none of these nations were bombed to ruins and had their populations die by the millions.
Belgian;
Belgian Armed Forces | Military Wiki | FANDOM powered by Wikia
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-16-2018, 12:50 PM
 
7,473 posts, read 4,017,691 times
Reputation: 6462
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
Compare the historic fate of Prussian and Imperial Germany to its much less militaristic neighbors. Sweden, Netherlands, Denmark, Switzerland, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, etc. None of these countries were hyper militarized and none of these nations were bombed to ruins and had their populations die by the millions.
Spain;
You are kidding right? spain has been involved in more worldly wartime destruction than perhaps any other country...……..long list here;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...nvolving_Spain
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-16-2018, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
11,157 posts, read 14,006,045 times
Reputation: 14940
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmonkey View Post
That does nothing to diminish my point. The US government chose those failed paths because they had a large military and a large military-industrial complex at their disposal. When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. And sure, if that hammer is being used to try to drive screws, it's not the hammer's fault, it's the user, but you don't look at the mess created by using the hammer and say "that hammer sure is an awesome tool!" But of course a hammer is an inanimate object, the military is comprised of sentient people. The upper brass that keeps allowing itself to be used in follies, often encourages being used in those follies to justify their budget, is complicit. And at some point the young man or woman who signs up, willingly yields his/her free will and personal judgement to the chain of command despite this dubious history is complicit. And the Pentagon, White House, etc. have able to get away with this stuff as much as they have because they stoke this mythologizing of the military and the use of military action, and so the public that buys into that is complicit as well.
Okay, I'll give you that. It's one way of looking at it...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:11 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top