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Lets not pretend that we haven't been egging Russia/Putin with pushing NATO alliances more east towards Russian borders. Imagine if China made an alliance with Brazil then started making alliances with every South and Central American country then finally making an alliance with Mexico and having missiles pointing right at us. Likes not pretend we won't invade Mexico.
Those countries were not pushed to join NATO.
Those countries know the Russians, and they know Russia would want to occupy and control historical invasion routes...which are them.
Why so much sympathy with Ukranians but not with Iraqis or Afghans?
Sympathy from who?!
Do you not recall the outrage among Muslim countries when a Muslim country was violated?
Have you not noticed the blase attitude among Muslim countries in this conflict?
Do you find any African countries who are outraged and are hastening to assist Ukraine? And were African countries so concerned about Afghanistan or Iraq?
I think my 4 questions pretty much answer your 1 question. People are interested in the things that seem to affect them. I won't be shamed for not being interested in events that will never affect me.
The other side of that coin also applies; I will not be intimidated into silence by those who wail, "WWIII!" Because I don't believe that either.
1. It is easy to vilify Russia since many Americans grew up viewing the USSR and Russia as the enemy, untrustworthy, something to be feared and hated. I don't think this mindset fully went away with the Cold War, so today, Americans tend to side with Russia's victims. In this case, Ukraine.
2. As far as the Middle East and the violence there, I hate to say it, but I think many here have become desensitized to it as as a result of YEARS of daily news reporting on the violence there. EVERY DAY as far back as I can recall, you hear about X number of people killed in Jerusalem, or Syria, etc. I don't agree with it but I think its some combination of "crisis fatigue" as well as our view that violence in those countries is somehow "normalized." It doesn't mean those lives are any less valuable. But when a relatively peaceful place such as Europe is attacked, it will cause alarm and make us feel threatened as well.
9/11 happened. USA claimed those responsible hid out in the Middle East. Iraq was an enemy because the US gov told the world Saddam had WMD which as we all know was a lie. It was the excuse to invade Iraq. Afghanistan followed because it was found out Al Queda were based and trained there and they announced responsibility for hitting the towers.
Ukraine is not an enemy of the conquistador Putin, it is a conquest. He knew what to expect from the West. There had been no significant Western response to his conquest of Crimea in 2014. Ukraine military has been fighting a war since that time against Russian-backed rebel groups. Today's war did not just start in Feb. It started in 2014.
Putin is deliberately targeting Ukraine citizenry. He intends to raze Ukraine just like Allies destroyed Berlin and much of Germany to a pile of rubble in an act of revenge and purposeful annihilation. His threats to use nukes is a bluff.China won't go for that and Putin is not about to lose his comrade Xi. Russia cannot stand alone like when the USSR existed.
Unless a person follows news in other parts of the world other than 100% focus on their own nation, these things will be unknown.
Why so much sympathy with Ukranians but not with Iraqis or Afghans?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizita
There is currently and outpouring of sympathy and outrage over the war in Ukraine. People are stumbling over their feet to help in some way. It is definitely a horrific situation and the people do need a lot of help. It's a good thing if it's provided.
However, Iraqi and Afghan civilians suffered the same for years yet few people expressed sympathy for them or outrage against those who started the wars. Why is that? Isn't it equally horrific when Iraqis are bombed, their family members dying, their homes destroyed and their safety so precarious that that they have to flee, suffering in the process? Was Bush a better guy than Putin when he invaded a sovereign country unprovoked?
Is the sympathy for Ukrainians because "they look like us"? Or could not showing pictures of the Iraqi civilians' suffering on TV have something to do with the lack of sympathy and outrage? Did people simply not know how ugly war is? Or is it because the war in Iraq was fought by our country?
I'd love to know what people think of this.
Europe has a large and wealthy population divided into numerous major and medium sized powers that had been going at each other countless times for generations. Some of the worst wars in human history, with massive destruction and millions upon millions of soldiers and civilians dying, happened in Europe.
For over 70 years there has finally been peace in most of Europe. Many European countries have effectively disarmed. Disagreements are solved with diplomacy. And all over Europe there are peace monuments and people say "never again".
Yet now Russia under Putin has all out invaded Ukraine. We see cities being bombed and tanks crossing the landscape like something out of WW2. Apartment buildings, hospitals, supermarkets, schools, colleges, museums, electrical grids, water supplies are all being deliberately targeted. Europe, even Germany for so long disarmed, is rearming and even the neutrals are talking about joining NATO.
Putin is single handedly dragging Europe back into the dark age. And you are wondering why people have sympathy with the Ukrainians.
So you're saying that the fact that Russia, unprovoked, invaded an independent and democratic country and indiscriminately bombed and killed non-combatant civilians, including women and children, had nothing to do with Americans siding with Ukraine?
The OP question was about the difference of perceptions.
Some humans thrive in rooting for the underdog. The little victim of the bully .
Putin ( bully), Ukraine ( current victim).
That's the simplified version.
I do think Ukraine is a wild card. So on a political level I'm not too keen on the national front.
The people though... Still deserve aide . They didn't ask for these losses of homes and loss of family members.
Putin claiming a peaceful intervention. What a bunch of [bleep]
Last edited by Rachel NewYork; 03-21-2022 at 05:00 PM..
Reason: Please no profanity in Great Debates (as per rules). Thank you.
Because Ukraine is effectively fighting back. Its partially a joking answer but has a grain of truth. An underdog standing up to the bully is a good story. I suspect that there would be less support if the Russians had successfully occupied Kyiv in 4 days and forced the complete surrender of Ukraine.
The Russia-Ukraine war is one in which most of us can sit back and unabashedly root for the underdog. There is no complications about it being a civil war or a democracy being the bully. Plus the stakes are higher with the NATO/EU countries being so close to Russia and Ukraine.
There is currently and outpouring of sympathy and outrage over the war in Ukraine. People are stumbling over their feet to help in some way. It is definitely a horrific situation and the people do need a lot of help. It's a good thing if it's provided.
However, Iraqi and Afghan civilians suffered the same for years yet few people expressed sympathy for them or outrage against those who started the wars. Why is that? Isn't it equally horrific when Iraqis are bombed, their family members dying, their homes destroyed and their safety so precarious that that they have to flee, suffering in the process? Was Bush a better guy than Putin when he invaded a sovereign country unprovoked?
Is the sympathy for Ukrainians because "they look like us"? Or could not showing pictures of the Iraqi civilians' suffering on TV have something to do with the lack of sympathy and outrage? Did people simply not know how ugly war is? Or is it because the war in Iraq was fought by our country?
I'd love to know what people think of this.
If you can't answer this question yourself, then no amount of explaining will ever make any sense. It's actually an intentionally/contrived obtuse thread/post.
If you can't answer this question yourself, then no amount of explaining will ever make any sense. It's actually an intentionally/contrived obtuse thread/post.
And seeing as how the OP has not been back even once to participate in this topic that she started, I can only agree.
Time to give this a rest. Thank you to all who did participate.
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Why so much sympathy with Ukranians but not with Iraqis or Afghans?
