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Interesting that these labor laws may be changed now that industries are finding a whole of lot of exploitable children due to the influx of migrant children crossing into the country without their parents. This definitely is NOT a coincidence. There are no coincidences at this level of play.
Now that migrant children are available in quantity the greedsters are working overtime to make it legal to put them to work, of course at low wages, no benefits, and no protections from all sorts of abuses. Whatever happened to Reagan's 'shining city on a hill.'
- "Over the past two years, more than 250,000 migrant children have come alone to the United States. Thousands of children have ended up in punishing jobs across the country — working overnight in slaughterhouses, replacing roofs, operating machinery in factories — all in violation of child labor laws,..."
This needs to stop. The border needs to be closed. Half the country is screaming to stop this, the other half isn't even admitting there is a problem at the border.
I don't understand why people want this to go on and then complain that some of the kids took terrible jobs. Or else they starve? This is one of the many reasons why we need the border closed.
This needs to stop. The border needs to be closed. Half the country is screaming to stop this, the other half isn't even admitting there is a problem at the border.
I don't understand why people want this to go on and then complain that some of the kids took terrible jobs. Or else they starve? This is one of the many reasons why we need the border closed.
That's a rather broad brush and over-simplification of the "sides" of the border argument. I am fully aware there is a problem, but exactly what is the solution? Fully closing it down would take resources we are not willing to spend (as taxpayers) - I assume you'd need armed guards along pretty much the entirety of the border. And then what - do they automatically shoot anyone trying to cross, or pick them up and drive them a bunch of miles south so they can start the trek all over again (so now we need bus drivers too), round them up and hold them indefinitely,.... ? And please don't tell me a "wall", that will be easily scaled or tunneled under if unguarded.
That said, businesses love this cheap, often desperate labor and they are in no rush to slow down or stop the influx. Any politician that promises you closed borders is lying, they are all beholden to the business lobby.
That's a rather broad brush and over-simplification of the "sides" of the border argument. I am fully aware there is a problem, but exactly what is the solution? Fully closing it down would take resources we are not willing to spend (as taxpayers) - I assume you'd need armed guards along pretty much the entirety of the border. And then what - do they automatically shoot anyone trying to cross, or pick them up and drive them a bunch of miles south so they can start the trek all over again (so now we need bus drivers too), round them up and hold them indefinitely,.... ? And please don't tell me a "wall", that will be easily scaled or tunneled under if unguarded.
That said, businesses love this cheap, often desperate labor and they are in no rush to slow down or stop the influx. Any politician that promises you closed borders is lying, they are all beholden to the business lobby.
And that, IMO, is the real reason we continue to have illegal immigration. Much of business wants that cheap labor and the lure of even bad jobs in economies like those of Central America is overwhelming.
That's a rather broad brush and over-simplification of the "sides" of the border argument. I am fully aware there is a problem, but exactly what is the solution? Fully closing it down would take resources we are not willing to spend (as taxpayers) - I assume you'd need armed guards along pretty much the entirety of the border. And then what - do they automatically shoot anyone trying to cross, or pick them up and drive them a bunch of miles south so they can start the trek all over again (so now we need bus drivers too), round them up and hold them indefinitely,.... ? And please don't tell me a "wall", that will be easily scaled or tunneled under if unguarded.
That said, businesses love this cheap, often desperate labor and they are in no rush to slow down or stop the influx. Any politician that promises you closed borders is lying, they are all beholden to the business lobby.
I think many of us are willing to spend the money on the border patrol. We are not protecting these children by turning them loose in our country, without parents, to be exploited. Politicians are responsible for this, not businesses. It's all very sad.
I think many of us are willing to spend the money on the border patrol. We are not protecting these children by turning them loose in our country, without parents, to be exploited. Politicians are responsible for this, not businesses. It's all very sad.
I don't entirely disagree, yet I wonder if it's any better to lock them on the other side of a fence to be exploited on a different patch of dirt. I kinda feel that the exploitation bothers me more than the question of where, exactly, it is occurring. Would sure be nice if we could find a way to interfere with those outcomes and make things better, rather than just shutting the door on it and pretending it doesn't still exist because it's not in OUR house.
But to whatever extent letting them come in here is causing and facilitating the exploitation, I agree that it ought to stop.
I don't entirely disagree, yet I wonder if it's any better to lock them on the other side of a fence to be exploited on a different patch of dirt. I kinda feel that the exploitation bothers me more than the question of where, exactly, it is occurring. Would sure be nice if we could find a way to interfere with those outcomes and make things better, rather than just shutting the door on it and pretending it doesn't still exist because it's not in OUR house.
But to whatever extent letting them come in here is causing and facilitating the exploitation, I agree that it ought to stop.
Last night we met with a couple from Africa that run a small boarding school for girls from nearby villages. Parents send them there because the girls will be safe, educated and learn a trade. The property is fenced with armed guards. I guess my point is that there are good people all over the world trying to help protect the children and keep them close to their families. Encouraging/allowing them to attempt to survive here alone is not a good option. I don't even understand how legally it is happening. 250,000 children.
The very idea of allowing children work in slaughterhouses, is appalling. It's gruesome and hideous work, that can affect a child physically, emotionally and spiritually.
I feel as though we are making a return to the Gilded Era, there were rich, poor and nothing in-between. At the turn of the last century, the United States permitted immigrants and their children to work. Children as young 6 worked in the coal mines of Pennsylvania. Women and girls worked in the infamous Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire. the doors to the stairs were nailed shut and the Fire Department didn't have ladders long enough to reach the floor where they were trapped. They had the choice of burning to death or jumping.
A witness wrote that the he saw "girls, holding hands, jumping from the sweat shop window, their dressed billowing in the wind like useless parachutes, meeting the sidewalk with a sickening thud" (not an exact quote, but not entirely my words, either)
When this news and the accompanying photographs of the fire reached NY City Society women, it caused profound outrage and empathy. Laws concerning safety and child welfare were enacted.
As a country, we agreed that children need to be protected from dangerous jobs, and exploitation by corporations. There was outrage over this event, and others like it.
Frequently, it seems that this country does not learn from experience.
And that, IMO, is the real reason we continue to have illegal immigration. Much of business wants that cheap labor and the lure of even bad jobs in economies like those of Central America is overwhelming.
Yes, it is. plus 1.
Last edited by Mike from back east; 04-18-2023 at 05:19 PM..
Reason: Merged 2:1
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The minute I read this, I knew exactly what was going on! These "industries" wanting child labor are the ones that hire illegal aliens, and they want to be able to hire the children, and they are doing it whether it is legal or not. This is dragging us into 3rd world values.
It is fine for teens to work a few hours a week in minimum wage type jobs to earn some extra money, and some families depend on the extra income, but they DO NOT belong in manufacturing jobs. Actually these manufacturers and construction companies depend on illegal labor in general due to unsafe conditions which a 1st world country would not tolerate, which we were not tolerating, but now that we are importing 3rd world to our doorstep.............
"A Department of Labor investigation alleges that a Midwest food sanitation provider “employed at least 31 children — from 13 to 17 years of age — in hazardous occupations,” with several suffering on-the-job injuries. The company denies those allegations, and many facts aren’t known — but this case raises the distinct possibility that unaccompanied alien children apprehended at the border and released by the government are being forced to work in slaughterhouses.
"Alone and Exploited, Migrant Children Work Brutal Jobs Across the U.S.
Arriving in record numbers, they’re ending up in dangerous jobs that violate child labor laws — including in factories that make products for well-known brands like Cheetos and Fruit of the Loom."
"Exclusive: Hyundai subsidiary has used child labor at Alabama factory"
Ultimately, the old corporate maxim, even legal obligation, to "maximize shareholder wealth" is ultimately a third world value - at least in the sense of "give maximum benefit to shareholders no matter what negative consequences befall others and even society in general".
I can go on, but saying "monetary value is the most important thing there is" leads to some pretty strange conclusions.
Ultimately, the old corporate maxim, even legal obligation, to "maximize shareholder wealth" is ultimately a third world value - at least in the sense of "give maximum benefit to shareholders no matter what negative consequences befall others and even society in general".
I can go on, but saying "monetary value is the most important thing there is" leads to some pretty strange conclusions.
I've had this thought when companies have massive layoffs in bad economic times to "protect shareholder value" and then have to hire again when there's an economic upturn. I am all in favor of business, but business should treat employees decently as well.
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I've had this thought when companies have massive layoffs in bad economic times to "protect shareholder value" and then have to hire again when there's an economic upturn. I am all in favor of business, but business should treat employees decently as well.
Still, where between the two do you draw the line between (a) layoffs at the first 0.2% quarterly drop in gross margin and (b) guaranteed lifetime employment? If you go for (a) then totally aside from ethics, that just unstable management practices, easily giving the impression of the company as an unreliable supplier of goods and services. If you go for (b) then that is a fast track to bankruptcy.
Even so, the very presence of the issue shows the need for social services in general (incl. unemployment). It also shows that even "maximize shareholder wealth", by itself, goes against even the shareholders' long-term best interest. It fails to anticipate that certain business practices, if allowed, will end up costing a lot more money in the long term (to employees or community/society). Very possibly in ways that damage their labor and consumer base (fewer paying customers means lower profits and dividends)
IOW, whatever short term gains the shareholders and managers make will be more than offset by losses of (a) potential future profits and (b) more expensive monetary losses due to having to "clean up the damage" (via higher taxes or operating expenses at best, fines at worst). It's like running an authentic open pit BBQ restaurant without fire insurance coverage.
To get back on the thread topic: Short term lower labor expenses by employing child labor can easily result in long-term damage to human resource development (lower levels of education, higher poverty rates, and probably more unhealthy kids due to toxic working conditions). Think of how many more paying customers you can get 25 years from now if those kids do end up with income suitable to purchase your goods and services!
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