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Old 01-02-2009, 01:17 PM
 
Location: San Diego
2,521 posts, read 2,349,340 times
Reputation: 1298

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsMtnsOnTheMind View Post
Here are some good statistics on teen drinking:

Research shows that kids whose parents or friends' parents provide alcohol for teen get-togethers are more likely to engage in heavier drinking, to drink more often, and to get into fatal traffic accidents..

Teens who begin drinking before age 15 are five times more likely to develop alcohol dependence than those who begin drinking at age 21.

An early age of drinking onset is also associated with alcohol-related violence not only among persons under age 21 but among adults as well.

It has been estimated that over three million teenagers are out-and-out alcoholics. Several million more have a serious drinking problem that they cannot manage on their own.

Annually, more than 5,000 deaths of people under age 21 are linked to underage drinking.

The three leading causes of death for 15- to 24-year-olds are automobile crashes, homicides and suicides -- alcohol is a leading factor in all three.

Of the 20 million junior and senior high school students in America, half of them report drinking on a monthly basis.
A study of ninth grade students from four urban high schools showed that the best predictor of risky sexual behavior was alcohol and/or drug use.


Federal agencies warn us that:

Research indicates that the human brain continues to develop into a person’s early twenties and that exposure of the developing brain to alcohol may have long-lasting effects on intellectual capabilities.

Exposing the brain to alcohol during this period (i.e, before age 21) may interrupt key processes of brain development” and “alcohol–induced brain damage may persist.

The brains and bodies of teens are still developing, and alcohol use can cause learning problems.

Motor vehicle crashes are the leading cause of death for 15- to 20-year-old youth in the U.S. More than one quarter of the drivers killed in crashes had been drinking.
Not one reference to where these "facts" can be found. A lot of them are just about how bad alcohol is, which is not up for debate.

People like you are such hypocrites, you talk about how bad something is for you, then you eat your fried foods, your red meats and your processed items. You drink your caffiene and eat your salt. We're not saying that 10 year olds should drink, but that by taking the taboo from it, it discourages irresponsible drinking.

Even still, all of your facts are byproducts of the drinking age being too high. Kids drink and drive because they have to go somewhere to drink that's not close to their home. They do it in secret because parents force them to do so.

Alcoholism is a disease only some people are susceptible to. I am not, my best friend is. He became an alcoholic in college, just like his father was. They both overcame their addictions, but many aren't so lucky. Many people have drinks at a young age and then go weeks without them, like I did. I would get some stranger to buy me and my friends some alcohol, we'd have a party, then take a few weeks off. We knew the dangers of drinking and driving, so we didn't do that. But Dick Cheney and George Bush did...

But clearly you're a paternalistic fascist. You believe that only you and the government is qualified to make decisions on how we live our lives. Eliminating the drinking age altogether might not happen, but making it 18 should.

TELL ME HOW IT'S NOT HYPOCRITICAL TO SAY SOMEONE IS RESPONSIBLE ENOUGH TO DEFEND OUR COUNTRY USING GRENADES, RIFLES AND MACHINE GUNS, BUT NOT ENOUGH TO ORDER A BEER AFTER PLAYING 18 HOLES OF GOLF. PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME!
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Old 01-02-2009, 01:20 PM
 
Location: San Diego
2,521 posts, read 2,349,340 times
Reputation: 1298
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsMtnsOnTheMind View Post
Here is a Florida study:

Teenagers drinking a lot more

St. Petersburg High School seniors will celebrate their May 21 graduation with an all-night casino theme party at the YMCA. There will be games and raffles and plenty of food. And absolutely no alcohol.

The party comes courtesy of a $1,000 grant from Operation PAR, which also is donating money to four other schools for alcohol-free graduation events.

The support comes as school district officials prepare to distribute a study that shows that underage binge drinking is a major concern for Pinellas County teens.

"It's a huge issue," said Kay Doughty, vice president of family and community relations for Operation PAR, a nonprofit drug treatment program serving Pinellas, Pasco, Manatee and Lee counties.

The problem isn't that the number of binge drinkers is growing, Doughty said. It's that binge drinking episodes these days are more intense. "It used to be five drinks for a male, now it's 10 to 15, and the effect on the brain is so incredible. It's horrible," Doughty said.

Binge drinking can lead students to make bad decisions and take unnecessary risks, said Peggy Johns, supervisor of pre-K-12 health education for Pinellas County Schools. Worse, Johns said, it can lead to injury or death. "It's not just intoxication, but you can have alcohol poisoning, where youth just consume too much alcohol and can actually die from it," she said.

The report, a study and analysis of risk behavior reported by middle and high school students last spring, shows that Pinellas teens are binge drinking at a higher rate than their national counterparts.

Thirty percent of high school students reported "episodic heavy drinking" within the past month, compared to a national average of 26 percent.

A study by the Harvard School of Public Health on student binge drinking in the 1990s found that college binge drinkers were usually white and male with a history of binge drinking in high school. In the Pinellas study, white binge drinking students outnumbered their non-white peers nearly 2 to 1.

The survey also asked students about riding in cars with people they knew had been drinking. Thirty-one percent of sixth-graders and 46 percent of eighth-graders said they had. Fifteen percent of high school students reported that they had driven while drinking at least once in the past year.

Parents need to start educating their children early about the consequences of binge drinking, said Jan Urbanski, supervisor of Safe and Drug Free Schools.

Urbanski's department is seeking more than $1-million in federal grant money to combat student drinking. The bottom line is this, Urbanski said: "Alcohol and growing adolescents don't mix."

More Pinellas youth reported binge drinking than tobacco or marijuana use.

Sources: 2006 Florida Youth Substance Abuse Survey - Pinellas County Report.

56 percent of Pinellas County eighth-graders reported having a drinking experience.

33 percent of Pinellas County eighth-graders tried alcohol before age 13.

24 percent of Pinellas County eighth-graders reported having tried marijuana.

15 percent of Pinellas County eighth-graders reported having tried some inhalant (glue, spray paint).

13 percent of Pinellas County eighth-graders said they had been offered some sort of drug on school grounds.

77 percent of Pinellas County high school students (grades 9-12) said they had tried alcohol.

51- Percent of Pinellas County high school students who said they drank alcohol within the previous month

42- Percent of high school students nationwide who said they drank alcohol within the past month.

5- Percent of Pinellas County high school students who reported having drunk alcohol at school.
So what's your point? Obviously the 21 year old drinking age does nothing to stop it, so what do you propose? If it's such a problem now, maybe change is in order, right? Maybe something that makes drinking less exciting would help, right?
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Old 01-02-2009, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Sheffield, England
2,636 posts, read 6,649,419 times
Reputation: 3336
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsMtnsOnTheMind View Post
Sources: 2006 Florida Youth Substance Abuse Survey - Pinellas County Report.

56 percent of Pinellas County eighth-graders reported having a drinking experience.

33 percent of Pinellas County eighth-graders tried alcohol before age 13.

24 percent of Pinellas County eighth-graders reported having tried marijuana.

15 percent of Pinellas County eighth-graders reported having tried some inhalant (glue, spray paint).

13 percent of Pinellas County eighth-graders said they had been offered some sort of drug on school grounds.

77 percent of Pinellas County high school students (grades 9-12) said they had tried alcohol.

51- Percent of Pinellas County high school students who said they drank alcohol within the previous month

42- Percent of high school students nationwide who said they drank alcohol within the past month.

5- Percent of Pinellas County high school students who reported having drunk alcohol at school.
The fact that there is no '100%' anywhere on that list and that only three of the figures are over 50% somewhat nullifies your accusations of irresponsibility again "all" teenagers. You will find irresponsible people in your age group but if I were to accuse you of being an irresponsible adult because of them then you wouldn't be happy about it. You, however, are making those kinds of accusations against all young people and frankly that is both misguided and unproductive. The whole reason teenagers have such a bad rap in society is because of people like yourself portraying the actions of a minority as those of the majority.
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Old 01-02-2009, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Not where I want to be
1,113 posts, read 2,520,458 times
Reputation: 445
Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
Not one reference to where these "facts" can be found. A lot of them are just about how bad alcohol is, which is not up for debate.

People like you are such hypocrites, you talk about how bad something is for you, then you eat your fried foods, your red meats and your processed items. You drink your caffiene and eat your salt. We're not saying that 10 year olds should drink, but that by taking the taboo from it, it discourages irresponsible drinking.

Even still, all of your facts are byproducts of the drinking age being too high. Kids drink and drive because they have to go somewhere to drink that's not close to their home. They do it in secret because parents force them to do so.

Alcoholism is a disease only some people are susceptible to. I am not, my best friend is. He became an alcoholic in college, just like his father was. They both overcame their addictions, but many aren't so lucky. Many people have drinks at a young age and then go weeks without them, like I did. I would get some stranger to buy me and my friends some alcohol, we'd have a party, then take a few weeks off. We knew the dangers of drinking and driving, so we didn't do that. But Dick Cheney and George Bush did...

But clearly you're a paternalistic fascist. You believe that only you and the government is qualified to make decisions on how we live our lives. Eliminating the drinking age altogether might not happen, but making it 18 should.

TELL ME HOW IT'S NOT HYPOCRITICAL TO SAY SOMEONE IS RESPONSIBLE ENOUGH TO DEFEND OUR COUNTRY USING GRENADES, RIFLES AND MACHINE GUNS, BUT NOT ENOUGH TO ORDER A BEER AFTER PLAYING 18 HOLES OF GOLF. PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME!
Sorry, I don't eat fried foods, red meat or processed foods. I am a vegetarian and a whole foods one at that. Like I have said before in my earlier posts....IMO, 18 year-olds should not be defending our country nor should they be allowed to drink. You need to enlighten "your self" by reading some of the statistics and articles that we have provided for you.
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Old 01-02-2009, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Not where I want to be
1,113 posts, read 2,520,458 times
Reputation: 445
Quote:
Originally Posted by happynoodleboycey View Post
The fact that there is no '100%' anywhere on that list and that only three of the figures are over 50% somewhat nullifies your accusations of irresponsibility again "all" teenagers. You will find irresponsible people in your age group but if I were to accuse you of being an irresponsible adult because of them then you wouldn't be happy about it. You, however, are making those kinds of accusations against all young people and frankly that is both misguided and unproductive. The whole reason teenagers have such a bad rap in society is because of people like yourself portraying the actions of a minority as those of the majority.
This is one county in Florida, not 50% of teens in America or EU so no, it does not nullify my point. Put them ALL together and yes, MOST of you guys are pretty irresponsible at 18.
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Old 01-02-2009, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,747,599 times
Reputation: 35920
leftydan6 says:

"People like you are such hypocrites

But clearly you're a paternalistic fascist
"

I thought Great Debates was supposed to be a forum where we didn't engage in personal attacks. In fact, I thought personal attacks were against the TOS, period.
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Old 01-02-2009, 06:34 PM
 
Location: mid wyoming
2,007 posts, read 6,831,029 times
Reputation: 1930
Yes it should be lowered. The kids can die and imitate a serious voter in america' elections. And they should be treated as adults when they break the laws with their drinking
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Old 01-02-2009, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Not where I want to be
1,113 posts, read 2,520,458 times
Reputation: 445
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowwalker View Post
Yes it should be lowered. The kids can die and imitate a serious voter in america' elections. And they should be treated as adults when they break the laws with their drinking
Funny how their parents cry "they are just kids" when they are sentenced after they kill someone but yet they are adult enough to drink.
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Old 01-02-2009, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,144 posts, read 42,131,207 times
Reputation: 3861
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsMtnsOnTheMind View Post
And that would be why your country is wanting to increase the drinking age to 21, like we have in the US?

You are no different than our teenagers. You all lack the discipline and responsibility to make appropriate choices when it comes to alcohol. That is the bad thing about alcohol, it impairs your ability to make good decisions and apparently post intelligent responses.
Following your reasoning: it should be illegal for a person to join the military till age 21 as well; an M-16 in the hands of a 19 YO 'kid' can be a hell of a lot more dangerous than an open can of Budweiser.

The above stated: the BAC for a DUI should be .04 with .08+ reserved for extreme DUI's---------irrespective of the driver's age.

Side note: I am for all practical intents and purposes a non drinker.
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Old 01-02-2009, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Not where I want to be
1,113 posts, read 2,520,458 times
Reputation: 445
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Following your reasoning: it should be illegal for a person to join the military till age 21 as well; an M-16 in the hands of a 19 YO 'kid' can be a hell of a lot more dangerous than an open can of Budweiser.

The above stated: the BAC for a DUI should be .04 with .08+ reserved for extreme DUI's---------irrespective of the driver's age.

Side note: I am for all practical intents and purposes a non drinker.
I don't know about that. More kids are dying because of alcohol, more so than guns. As I stated before, the age for alcohol use and the military should be the same.....21.
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