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Background...from 1993 until 1998 I had worked in the Winchester, Virginia radio market. In 1995, it became common knowledge to the general public that a local radio disc jockey "Tad Pole" on WFQX-FM had HIV and is gay ( very long story as to how the public had found out ). Thanks to my girlfriend I have access to www.newspaperarchive.org . Today I was reading the local northern Virginia papers from 1995 until 1997 about "Tad Pole" on WFQX, then known as Froggy 99. The protest from Fred Phelps and how Exodus International wrote to the papers in the region asking "Tad Pole" to contact that group in an effort to "change" and how gay men/women can change to go straight. According to some of their letters in the Winchester Star newspaper, the writers ( Exodus International ) knew people who had become gay only because of Tad Pole being on WFQX, in other words Tad Pole had recruited others into becoming gay.
Flash forward to 2008, Winchester's Lisa Miller another "ex-gay" who is involved with her former lesbian partner over a custody battle invloving a baby girl only to have "given up" the lesbian lifestyle. The same paper interviewed Lisa in 2008 and it seemed every other repsonse was "..gotta talk to my lawyer" even when it was brought up Lisa despite being an "ex-lesbian" still kept profiles up on various lesbian websites. Lisa responded with "...I can answer that but you need to talk to my lawyer first.."
OK..in the case with "Tad Pole" Exodus International never did mention names of those who actually became gay because of WFQX nor did Lisa Miller ever explained the "..gotta talk to my lawyer" statement after every question that was asked. Clue me in..
1....can somebody who is gay really be recruited into being gay such as listening to someone who is gay on the radio? Same would apply to TV if this was the case. The letter writers swear it is possible. Myself, I can't see it.
and
2....why do those so-called "ex-gays" like Lisa Miller, why do they get their lawyers involved with every single question about their sexually? I myself noticed this trend with others who say that they "..used to be gay". Ask them a question and the repsonse is usually "..you need to talk to my lawyer".
Exactly how does one recruit others to be gay? And is there really such a thing as one being an "ex-gay"?
Last edited by billybobwv; 02-28-2010 at 06:46 PM..
1....can somebody who is gay really be recruited into being gay such as listening to someone who is gay on the radio? Same would apply to TV if this was the case. The letter writers swear it is possible. Myself, I can't see it.
and
2....why do those so-called "ex-gays" like Lisa Miller, why do they get their lawyers involved with every single question about their sexually? I myself noticed this trend with others who say that they "..used to be gay". Ask them a question and the repsonse is usually "..you need to talk to my lawyer".
Exactly how does one recruit others to be gay? And is there really such a thing as one being an "ex-gay"?
I am gay. I did not want to be gay. But I am. So I accepted reality and got over it. It's really that simple when you strip away all the BS.
Nobody recruited me. Far from it! It's the worst thing you can be if you're a guy! Not as bad today as it used to be, but still very tough. Definitely not something you'd choose.
I do believe sexual orientation is more of a range, than a black/white kind of thing. I do think it's possible for some people to move along that continuum, but not all the way from totally gay to totally heterosexual. Now, they may be able to do that with their outward behavior. But inwardly, I don't believe it's possible.
However, I do think it's possible to move part way on that continuum....so that someone who is on the gay side of bisexual might move toward the heterosexual side of bisexual.
That said, I really don't think anyone knows or understands how this process works, but I do think it happens in some cases, albeit in a minority.
As far as any gay person I've known, man or woman (and I know a lot, having worked in media and mental health) the answers are no, and no.
I agree that orientation is a spectrum. I do think society has such contempt for male homosexuals that it's hard for a guy in the mid of the spectrum to stay neutral (bi) and if he's gonna declare himself, he goes all the way.
When it comes to women, I think society sees it as arousing if the women are good-looking. If they're not good-looking, no one cares what they do.
I imagine people can change their behavior, but not their feelings. If they've internalized a religious message or some such, they can not act on their real attractions, but I don't think they can be rid of them (and who would want to be- how disfiguring that must be to one's psyche).
I think being gay is a natural variation on the majority norm, probably due to some sort of hormonal wash in the womb.
I once asked a gay friend how he knew he was gay, and of course, he asked me, "How do you know you're straight?"
Oh.
First of all, I think most people view sexuality as strictly black and white. As in, "You're either straight or you're gay." I agree that by and large, we have tendencies to go one way or the other. However, a large amount of research is showing that many people fall somewhere in between this spectrum. I'm not referring to bisexuals. I'm referring to otherwise straight people, who want straight relationships, etc... but also have the occasional homosexual fantasy. Naturally, our label-obsessed society requires we find a name for such a person. Many will call them gay, some will call them bi-sexual. The difference is, it doesn't really matter.
But, assuming we are talking about someone who is gay and has absolutely no straight fantasies whatsoever, I do know the American Psychiatric Association cautions against trying to encourage someone to change their sexuality because it's virtually impossible.
Look at it this way. Imagine that all of your friends, family, and most of society were all gay. You were this "strange" person who was attracted to the other sex. Religious groups, members of your family, and many others all come clamoring for you to change your lifestyle. After much pressure, undue hardship, and fear of being ostracized, you seek help at a "Straight To Gay" Church revival. A year down the road, you rant and rave about your wonderful new lifestyle as a "normal gay person" because that's what society wanted. Tell me... Do you truly think that's a feasible scenario? A realistic scenario? And even if it were, what kind of harm do you think might come of it in the long run?
What it really boils down to, in my opinion, is how much you're willing to lie to yourself and to those around you about who and what you are. No, your sexuality simply isn't going to change. You can lie to those around you and tell them it has. You can flaunt your new girlfriend, wife, and possibly even kids. But, in the long run, none of those things have changed your sexuality other than the appearance of your sexuality.
And that's what will continually baffle me. Why are people so sexually obsessed in the first place? We almost have literal wars over whether people should get married, be allowed to have kids, have certain rights, or even serve in the military - and it's all because of how someone has sex? It's just sex... That's all there is to it. I don't see what the big deal is.
Let's look at what Joseph Nicolosi (one of the founders of the anti-gay fringe group NARTH) himself has said about Reparative therapy (or pray away the gay)...
Quote:
Dr. Nicolosi, a conservative Roman Catholic, is a founder of NARTH. He coined the term "reparative therapy." He said that this form of therapy: "...can only be damaging if the agenda of the therapist supersedes that of the patient." He claims that:
One third of the patients at the Thomas Aquinas Psychological Clinic, of which he is founding director, experience "significant improvement -- they understand their homosexuality and have some sense of control." However, they may engage in same-sex sexual behavior. He seems to be saying that this group of clients remain with a homosexual orientation.
Another third are "cured;" they refrain from same-sex behavior and the strength and frequency of their same-sex desires is diminished, although not necessarily gone. This appears to refer to their homosexual patients who either become asexual or decide to remain celibate.
The other third fail to change. They remain with a homosexual or bisexual orientation.
It would seem that he is admitting that reparative therapy has an almost 100% failure rate in terms of converting persons with a homosexual or bisexual orientation to heterosexual. He commented: "We say to patients, 'Your true self is heterosexual'." He tells male patients: "Look at your body: It was designed to fit a woman, not a man."
So let's add this up....
1/3 have "some sense of control" over their homosexual attractions but may still engage in same-sex sexual behaviour.
1/3 refrain from same-sex behaviour and their desires are diminished but not necessarily gone.
1/3 remain with a homosexual or bisexual orientation.
So where's all this success changing from a homosexual orientation to a heterosexual orientation?
Now let's look at what the AMERICAN PSYCHIATRIC ASSOCIATION says about "reparative" therapy:
Quote:
"The potential risks of 'reparative therapy' are great, including depression, anxiety and self-destructive behavior, since therapist alignment with societal prejudices against homosexuality may reinforce self-hatred already experienced by the patient. Many patients who have undergone "reparative therapy" relate that they were inaccurately told that homosexuals are lonely, unhappy individuals who never achieve acceptance or satisfaction. The possibility that the person might achieve happiness and satisfying interpersonal relationships as a gay man or lesbian is not presented, nor are alternative approaches to dealing with the effects of societal stigmatization discussed ... the APA opposes any psychiatric treatment, such as 'reparative' or 'conversion' therapy which is based on the assumption that homosexuality per se is a mental disorder or based on a prior assumption that the patient should change his/her sexual orientation.
And this is what the American Psychological Association says in it's 2009 review of all the literature and so-called pseudoscience "studies" about reparative therapy or SOCE (Sexual Orientation Change Efforts)
"The task force conducted a systematic review of the peer-reviewed journal literature on sexual orientation change efforts (SOCE) and concluded that efforts to change sexual orientation are unlikely to be successful and involve some risk of harm, contrary to the claims of SOCE practitioners and advocates.
Even though the research and clinical literature demonstrate that same-sex sexual and romantic attractions, feelings, and behaviors are normal and positive variations of human sexuality, regardless of sexual orientation identity, the task force concluded that the population that undergoes SOCE tends to have strongly conservative religious views that lead them to seek to change their sexual orientation.
Thus, the appropriate application of affirmative therapeutic interventions for those who seek SOCE involves therapist acceptance, support, and understanding of clients and the facilitation of clients’ active coping, social support, and identity exploration and development, without imposing a specific sexual orientation identity outcome."
I think the gender you are attracted to is innate. But, you can also be attracted to both genders - however, one will likely be a primary attraction. You can deny that primary attraction - but I do not think that it goes away - the individual chooses not to act upon it. That doesnt make you any less attracted to that gender. So, no - I dont think you can be ex-gay.
Well I've been hanging out with gays and lesbians for over half my life and it doesn't seemed to have rubbed off on me. **shrug** Still straight.
And gee I don't know but I don't imagine there'll ever be a time when I start walking around proclaiming to be an ex-heterosexual BUT then I never really picked a religious team to begin with and I don't imagine that there's anything at this point in my life that would evoke an epiphany and I suddenly had to start following some of these ridiculous rules.
Seems to me the problem isn't with gay or straight it's with attempting to conform to unrealistic and dangerous religious ideology that really has no bearing on a person's spirituality anyway.
I strongly believe that true homosexuality is a physiological condition. Straight people can participate in homosexual acts, but their basic orientation is still straight. Similarly, a homosexual people can participate in heterosexual acts, but they are still gay.
I suspect many of those who say they've been "cured" of homosexuality have simply chosen to live a celibate life, and I find that very sad.
Last edited by formercalifornian; 03-02-2010 at 01:29 PM..
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