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Old 02-20-2010, 08:01 AM
 
Location: US, California - federalist
2,794 posts, read 3,678,046 times
Reputation: 484

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I think we should eliminate social security by attrition by simplifying Government and using unemployment insurance as a social safety net instead. It would be less expensive and more market friendly than what we have now. If, unemployment compensation based on the concept of at-will employment, were to solve for official poverty as well, anyone who is naturally unemployed should be able to apply for unemployment compensation at-will and not be in official poverty. In my opinion, our civic obligation ends at official poverty.

In my view, no one should have to endure modern forms of wage slavery, merely for the sake of Capitalism. Our economy can be more efficient if less motivated labor market participants opt to be subsidized for a hypothetical minimum wage that provides an opportunity cost to "wage slavery" as an economic Blessing of Liberty.
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Old 02-20-2010, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Southwest Nebraska
1,297 posts, read 4,770,145 times
Reputation: 910
I think the maximum income for EVERY worker in the USA should be $10.00/hr. Wall street down to fast food or whatever. That way you rich people can live the fairy tale great life of not paying high taxes and getting so much free benefits from government.

We would ALL enjoy this and everybody would be equal. Now lets all hold hands and skip to my lou to work and know that some day we will get something for nothing.
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Old 02-20-2010, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,977,099 times
Reputation: 36644
Social Security pays out over a half a trillion dollars every year in benefits. Do you think that money just gets flushed down in a hole in the ground and disintegrates? Or does it get recirculated back into the economy by people who buy things, so you can have a job?
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Old 02-20-2010, 11:00 AM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
8,182 posts, read 9,213,174 times
Reputation: 3632
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleDolphin View Post
The math assumes a steady rate of return on investment. What if the investments tank, as they very well might? Many lost 50%-75% of their retirement money in the last four years.
If we had a system like Chile it would be highly diversified with a large percentage invested in government bonds. Plus the only way they would lose is if the portfolio is down 50-75% and they sell it. A system like this would no allow for that, they would just pull their monthly distribution out over their lives. It would not matter what the annual ROR is, it would be about providing income. Plus they would have the option of converting a lump sum to an annuitized payment for life.
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Old 02-20-2010, 11:12 AM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
8,182 posts, read 9,213,174 times
Reputation: 3632
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Social Security pays out over a half a trillion dollars every year in benefits. Do you think that money just gets flushed down in a hole in the ground and disintegrates? Or does it get recirculated back into the economy by people who buy things, so you can have a job?
Actually the over 65 crowd spends about 35-40% less than 35-54 year olds. The economic benefit of a 50 year old with three kids is dramatically higher than a 70 year old.

If the 50 year old was not paying for others retirement they would have more money to spend on their families, boosting the economy even more.

Here are the facts. http://www.bls.gov/cex/2008/share/age.pdf
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Old 02-20-2010, 11:50 AM
 
48,502 posts, read 96,856,573 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
Would you be surprised to learn that SS was and is 100% voluntary?

There is no law compelling all Americans in the USA to participate. There is no law punishing any American who does not participate. The "income tax" on wages, under FICA, is tied to being a participant. If one has not consented to be taxed, no tax liability exists.

Don't believe me.
Please write a polite letter to your senators, congressman, and the SocSec administrator in Baltimore, MD., and ask them if there is a law that obligates all Americans to enroll. Ask them for the law that punishes any American that doesn't enroll nor participate.

(This may explain why so many "Tax protesters" sincerely can't find "the law" that compels them. It's an agreement, via FICA! He who consents cannot object.)
From what i have read this has been litiagted in the federal courts and i know that sate and local government employees are not required to particapate unless they choose to as a group.If you think you do not tehn i would reaserch teh ruling(s). Many decide they don't ahve to pay income and other taxes based on their research and that has lead to their tax problems;like the austin plane bomber.

Last edited by texdav; 02-20-2010 at 12:06 PM..
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Old 02-20-2010, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Orlando, Florida
43,854 posts, read 51,184,922 times
Reputation: 58749
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg Mann View Post
I think the maximum income for EVERY worker in the USA should be $10.00/hr. Wall street down to fast food or whatever. That way you rich people can live the fairy tale great life of not paying high taxes and getting so much free benefits from government.

We would ALL enjoy this and everybody would be equal. Now lets all hold hands and skip to my lou to work and know that some day we will get something for nothing.
Hey....if we are going to balance out wages....lets at least go with a $50 dollar an hour deal.

Seriously, if we did this....it would be called Communism....and that doesn't seem to work so well. If I could make the same money mopping a floor as doing brain surgery....why would I bother to go to college? There has to be financial benefits for people to push themselves to be all they can be.
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Old 02-20-2010, 04:55 PM
 
12,022 posts, read 11,572,686 times
Reputation: 11136
Quote:
Originally Posted by hilgi View Post
Actually the over 65 crowd spends about 35-40% less than 35-54 year olds. The economic benefit of a 50 year old with three kids is dramatically higher than a 70 year old.

If the 50 year old was not paying for others retirement they would have more money to spend on their families, boosting the economy even more.

Here are the facts. http://www.bls.gov/cex/2008/share/age.pdf
In Fairfax County, the 50 year old with three kids is actually consuming about $37,500 in public education costs each year. Everyone else is paying for their kids' education.
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Old 02-20-2010, 05:08 PM
 
Location: US, California - federalist
2,794 posts, read 3,678,046 times
Reputation: 484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg Mann View Post
I think the maximum income for EVERY worker in the USA should be $10.00/hr. Wall street down to fast food or whatever. That way you rich people can live the fairy tale great life of not paying high taxes and getting so much free benefits from government.

We would ALL enjoy this and everybody would be equal. Now lets all hold hands and skip to my lou to work and know that some day we will get something for nothing.
We have a Ninth Amendment, a federal at-will employment doctrine, and state at-will employment laws to consider and the concept of economics.

I think our Founding Fathers provided sufficient instructions on how to achieve the Blessings of Liberty without excessive use of socialism or communism.
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Old 02-20-2010, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Duluth, Minnesota, USA
7,639 posts, read 18,125,272 times
Reputation: 6913
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
Here's a recent column from Jim Jubak about how Medicare & Social Security payments now make up 60% of the Federal budget. He didn't mention this, but add in 10 percentage points for interest on the national debt, and that means 70% of the current Federal budget is already committed.

Jubak is no partisan hack. He's telling it like it is here:

(Economic) Growth won't dig US out of this hole

Jim Jubak: US can't grow its way out of deficit - MSN Money

The question is.....what do we do about it???? Doing nothing is not a viable option. Stopping the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan might be a good first step....but all by itself, does not even come close to solving the problems. We would have to do something on the order of getting rid of the entire military in order to keep SS & Medicare in their current forms....and only a lunatic fringe would go along with that.

Anyone have any ideas? I think these ideas need to be along the lines of "What am I willing to pay more for or give up?" as opposed to "What should the other guy pay more for or give up?"

I think we're going to have to have both major cuts in SS benefits, as well as major tax hikes if we want to avoid becoming a country like Argentina (which defaulted in its debt in 2002 and may do so again in the near future).

I also think as far as Medicare goes, we have to get serious about getting medical costs down. Changing our food policies would help. Take out the high fructose corn syrup out of food. Reform the school lunch programs for kids. Don't allow people to buy junk food with food stamps. Also, reform the way food is grown and cattle are raised....and watch health care costs come down as diabetes & heart disease go into retreat.

Honestly, I really don't think most Americans realize how dire our financial situation really is. And, sadly, I think they're more preoccupied with blaming each other than making the necessary sacrifices needed to get our financial house in order. In short, I fear the latest recession will look like child's play compared to what is coming. I hope I'm wrong. But it's going to take nothing short of heroic efforts on the part of the marjority of the American people to turn things around.
The only way to "fix" social security is to have more children. American men and women are only having enough children to replace themselves, and white Americans (and I think black Americans as well) are having less children than necessary to hold the population stable.

For Medicare (and Medicaid) I agree with your suggestions.
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