Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Green Living
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-24-2012, 02:52 AM
 
217 posts, read 360,845 times
Reputation: 67

Advertisements

Hawaii's small and disconnected electric grid is being challenged by growth in net metering solar installations.
Background:
Energy Act of 2005 states utilities must accept customer solar power and the customer be compensated.
With more solar, the utility company becomes a distributor and grid maintainer - for free! Not only that, but a utility that once had a hand full of throttles to control the steady load from customers, now is dealing with 1000s of sporadic power sources, requiring purchasing and maintaining equipment to deal with this. Lower profits and higher operating costs = bankruptcy.

Is this the correct take?

Last edited by nick gar; 11-24-2012 at 03:27 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-24-2012, 06:05 AM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,992,465 times
Reputation: 3572
No
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-24-2012, 08:52 AM
 
5,760 posts, read 11,545,794 times
Reputation: 4949
Not even maybe. Solar is pretty predictable and steady throughout the day. Hawaill can mix some Wind in and help balance. They can even do some Volcano / Ocean thermal. They even started the trend towards Solar Thermal Air Conditioning that is slowly coming to the mainland.

see -- Sopogy.com

Rough thing about Hawaii (and all most islands) is Diesel (think VERY expensive) Generators are usually the historic base load source. The most expensive option is what their legacy system was built on.

The more daytime / primetime source that can be switched over to renewable, the better they will be. Leave the Diesel off except for when they need them.

Anyway -- backs towards the start -- does this mean bankruptcy for the legacy system? Not likely. I would love to be the guy(s) running such a system. Do a Time-Of-Use and Demand based metering system and is pretty much a self-filling piggy bank.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-24-2012, 01:54 PM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,992,465 times
Reputation: 3572
Look up Hawaiian Electric Industries on the stock market. Their revenues are growing at about 15-20% per year and they are profitable. They are also a regulated utility, which means it's VERY difficult for them to go bankrupt.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-25-2012, 12:43 AM
 
217 posts, read 360,845 times
Reputation: 67
Good to hear, DC. Maybe the capital and/or bank interest saved on purchasing another power plant will smartly be spent on upgrading their utility grid.

Still, they are on path to evolving from a power provider to a distributor/ grid operator . I want to solve the argument if the majority of customers gets solar panels, where is the profit to continue business.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-25-2012, 05:40 AM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,992,465 times
Reputation: 3572
Think of them as evolving to be a "common carrier" and perhaps you'll scare yourself less. There are many profitable common carriers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-28-2012, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,778,277 times
Reputation: 24863
Default Changing utilites

Many Utilities have sold their generating facilities and concentrated on purchasing electricity and reselling it via their distribution system to local customers’. This allows them to recover capital for other investments and to shop around for the lowest cost electricity. They have to buy electricity from solar and wind installations but they resell that energy at a profit somewhere else on their system.

If the Hawaiian system has excess daytime energy it should consider building a pumped storage hydro station to store and release the excess energy. As Hawaii has both mountains and water this should not be all that difficult.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-29-2012, 05:40 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,778,277 times
Reputation: 24863
Default Utility mismanagement

Taking an electric utility to bankruptcy requires an extraordinarily inept management probably focusing on very short term profit at the expense of long term profitability. Actually a bankruptcy that removes the current management may be exactly what this company requires.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-29-2012, 06:31 AM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,992,465 times
Reputation: 3572
The only electric utility bankruptcies I'm aware of have been triggered by investments in large central station generation that either was never completed, as in the case of several nuclear plants, or when completed was not needed and their was no mechanism to recover the money invested. I see no sign that Hawaiian Electric is either poorly managed or in any financial trouble. This entire thread seems to be someone's fantasy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-29-2012, 06:45 AM
 
Location: Minnysoda
10,659 posts, read 10,726,169 times
Reputation: 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
The only electric utility bankruptcies I'm aware of have been triggered by investments in large central station generation that either was never completed, as in the case of several nuclear plants, or when completed was not needed and their was no mechanism to recover the money invested. I see no sign that Hawaiian Electric is either poorly managed or in any financial trouble. This entire thread seems to be someone's fantasy.
Not to aware are you......
The Spark : California: PG&E, a big utility, declares bankruptcy. What are they really up to?

MAINE UTILITY DECLARES BANKRUPTCY ACTION TAKEN TO ESCAPE 'OVERWHELMING' OBLIGATION TO BUY POWER FROM SEABROOK - The Boston Globe (Boston, MA) | HighBeam Research

El Paso Electric Company News - The New York Times

Utility Bankruptcy Could Cause Havoc / Creditors may lose big in power crisis - SFGate
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Green Living
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top