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Recharging is actually free in Chicago at most places from the dealers to the libraries to the schools. The most I heard of anybody charging was $21 for the quick charge machine, but everybody else is charging less than $4/hr if they are charging at all. Walgreens is at $2/hr for the level 2 chargers.
So tell me, using your $8 example, how are companies going to get people to pay the extra $32?
Well, if as many drivers are driving EVs as ICE cars (that is the OP BTW) just how long do you think Walgreens is going to sell you a charge at $2 per hour?
Please be serious. The car dealers? Are they going to give away free charges when as many people or more drive EVs than gas fueled cars? Everyone is going to drive to a car dealer and those car dealers are going to have sufficient stations to charge all the cars that show up?
Then, when 20 people show up wanting a charge, how long are you going to wait at Walgreens? Like everyone else, you'll go to where there is a charging station and pay whatever they tell you to pay...or walk
That's mostly due to choices though. You can get cable for $15-$30/mo, but if you want extra programming channels then you do pay extra, that isn't necessary though. For $100/mo +tax you can get cable, internet, and telephone service.
In very few markets, just like you can get gasoline cheaper than what is being paid in major cities. Come on, you should know the prices you're talking about are available to very few people.
The average cable TV cost alone is $61/per month, look it up. What did it use to cost? About $9 or less.
As for regulated prices, don't forget, the reason electricity prices are regulated is because of the manner in which it is used.
Let there be millions of EVs out there and watch just how fast the laws and regulations about the price to charge via electric goes out the window.
Anyone really believe that if everyone was driving an EV that you'll pay pennies or just $2-4 per charge? Greed doesn't know anything about green unless it is the color of money.
Limited Basic cable prices are set by local governments, and are still generally less than $20/mo around the country.
Limited Basic is what we used to call "cable" back when it was $9/month, in the previous century. This includes local broadcast stations (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, PBS, etc.), local government channels, and education channels. They don't advertise it, and you may have to specifically ask for it, but it's still available.
The $61 average quoted includes optional entertainment channels. Those cost extra. Duhhhh.
And yes, the free charging stations are part of a widespread push to encourage the use of Zero Emissions vehicles. If you leave that out of the story it doesn't make nearly as much sense.
Will they start charging for them someday? Yes, I'm sure they will someday, once ZEVs have reached some kind of tipping point, but we're still years away from that. The reason businesses are putting them in is as an amenity to attract forward thinking "early adopters," who often have high disposable incomes. One high end shopping center on the Big Island, where electricity rates are among the highest in the country, recently installed a free high speed charger and now advertises to "charge your car free while you have dinner at our fine restaurants."
This fellow, an EV owner, seems to have a good handle on the situation:
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Billing for charging is a very complex issue, worthy of a whole different article at least. Here are some quick thoughts for now... - Electricity is cheap, so cheap it's often more expensive to pay for billing infrastructure than it is to give the electricity away. - The cost of electricity given away is an investment in our future independence from oil and represents a public good. - Sites that install charging to encourage EV use would often rather have free charging stations that get used to raise awareness about EVs than paid stations that don't. - Businesses often want to attract customers and the minor cost of a little electricity is more than made up for in increased business.
- For stations that do bill for charging, there are many options such as charge network membership cards, direct credit card support, or premium parking rates for spots that offer charging. We're in a delicate phase now where charging infrastructure is being installed to promote electric vehicle ownership, which in turn will create demand for charging. As ownership increases to the point where infrastructure needs to be reserved for those who really need to charge, we'll likely see a shift in billing practices. At the same time, businesses may find it necessary to offer free or inexpensive charging to attract customers from a wider geographical area.
As for regulated prices, don't forget, the reason electricity prices are regulated is because of the manner in which it is used.
This is factually incorrect. The reason utilities are regulated by PUCs is because they were granted monopolies, and need public oversight and regulation to counter their innate "greed."
In very few markets, just like you can get gasoline cheaper than what is being paid in major cities. Come on, you should know the prices you're talking about are available to very few people.
The average cable TV cost alone is $61/per month, look it up. What did it use to cost? About $9 or less.
You still haven't answered the question. Under the current system people are willing to pay $40 for a tank that can be filled in less than 10 minutes, but with EV you need more time to get a full charge or buy a Tesla and use Tesla's battery swap feature, so it isn't realistic to expect people to pay an extra $32.
Come on, let's say you are an establishment that has the EV charging system, how are you going to get me to pay an extra $32 (or whatever amount)?
according to the Department of Energy, the annual "fuel" cost for an electric or plug-in hybrid (using only electricity) is $594, at a national average of 11 cents per kwh. Calculating the annual cost times the kWh rate, your EV or PHEV -- using a Level II, 240-volt EV charger -- will require 5,400 kwh of charge per year, or 450 kwh per month. Assuming 450 kwh of charge, multiplied by CPS Energy's average kwh rate of 10 cents (lower than the national average), you would pay an additional $45 per month for electricity, or $1.50 per day.
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Originally Posted by Mack Knife
As for regulated prices, don't forget, the reason electricity prices are regulated is because of the manner in which it is used.
Let there be millions of EVs out there and watch just how fast the laws and regulations about the price to charge via electric goes out the window.
Anyone really believe that if everyone was driving an EV that you'll pay pennies or just $2-4 per charge? Greed doesn't know anything about green unless it is the color of money.
Electric prices are only regulated in half the country though.
All you can offer is "that is the law"? Does the law say prices can't change? If so , please, do share.
Have the laws prevented cable prices from increasing?
Have the laws prevented telephone rates from increasing?
Have the laws prevented water prices from increasing?
They too are regulated.
If EVs supplanted ICE vehicles, the demand for electricity would increase exponentially. The utilities would sit back and say, "gee, we'll just let all that money they'd be paying for gasoline just stay in their pockets, we don't need or want it".
Electricity is cost based. Hmmm, did it ever occur to you that their costs would increase because they'd pay more for the fuels they use to generate the electricity?
Nah, that is impossible, right?
Thanks for playing.
The prices charged by utilities are set by regulatory agencies and are cost based.
EVs will not cause a material impact of the need to new generation for many years. EVs will mostly recharge at night when there is plenty of spare capacity.
Electric prices are only regulated in half the country though.
Any idea where to find a list of places it's not? According to this list, all fifty states plus DC plus Puerto Rico and Guam have Regulatory Utilities Commissions...
Any idea where to find a list of places it's not? According to this list, all fifty states plus DC plus Puerto Rico and Guam have Regulatory Utilities Commissions...
I think the CPS (San Antonio area utility) link you provided is excellent, but most readers (9 out of 10 according to some studies) never open links like those, so I thought it would most useful to quote a snip, in reference to a commuter driving 40 miles a day in an EV, versus a conventional gas buggy...
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In short, your CPS Energy bill will likely increase roughly $45 per month as a result of driving electric. However, by replacing your gas guzzler with an EV or PHEV, you no longer have a gas bill of $150 each month. So, in essence, driving electric may save you more than $100 per month, according to this example. Every person and their driving habits are different, so costs will vary for each driver. However, saving is saving. Going electric when you drive should save you money.
Oh, geez, this myth again? Using US government figures, 85% of the commuters in the US are within range of all the EVs on the market today.
Think niche. EVs fill a niche. If that isn't your niche, don't buy one.
Yes, and a number of utility companies have special rates for EVs already... and they're lower than regular household rates, because they recharge during late night hours when demand is lowest.
No, but high tension lines are still more effective at moving energy across country than are trucks or trains or pipelines. That's why hydroelectric power from the Pacific Northwest goes to such a wide area. And it's why Texas wind and solar farms could rival the PNW in the reach of the energy they can supply.
Actually, no. The Public Utility Commissions are, and they are proving quite friendly to EVs and individual solar and wind and hydro producers tying into the grids.
Hydro producers have been tied to the grid for years. It's solar/wind who are behind the times.
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